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Old 02-20-2020, 12:17 AM
 
1,112 posts, read 853,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackierudetsky View Post
Since you're talking about mestizos/criollos who do fit in, here's a thinkpiece about those who don't: https://celdrantours.blogspot.com/20...-wall.html?m=1

This is overly dramatic. The standard of beauty didn't switch from mestiza to morena during the Marcos Era. This was written in 2006 and I'm really surprised he said that. Even today, mestiza is still the standard of beauty, even moreso in 2006. Also, Marcos didn't specifically have anything about mestizos. His wife was partially of Spanish-descent from a wealthy Spanish family. Also, the move from Manila to the suburbs would have happened regardless of WW2. It's the natural progression- wealthy families move out to the suburbs because they want more space. I can't imagine those wealthy families staying in Intramuros, Ermita, and Malate forever. Even most Chinese families moved from Binondo. I can see what he means by the Spanish-Filipinos losing their cultural center, but they have just created new cultural centers that aren't as obvious.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:45 AM
 
1,284 posts, read 1,017,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bituingmaykinang View Post
^^Isn't that more of the classic classism in the Philippines. I know many rich natives who are exactly like that in the story. (By the way, I have read this about 10 years ago. It was a hot topic on the blog, there used to be a lot of comments.)

Also, colorism is an issue in the Philippines. Just look at how lighter skinned natives look down on Nancy Binay for her skin color.
''Perhaps we can say that the Spanish mestizo doesn't want to be at home in the Philippines at all. He would rather embrace the romantic notion of an Occidental Philippines that cannot be, than to become part of the Oriental Philippines which exists before him right now. And with this decision to deny the context which surrounds oneself, comes the corresponding consequences: The insecurity of never being accepted and the paranoia that someone out there is always trying to get you. Time to build those walls again.'' TBH, of all the things I could be reminded of, I was reminded of all the Filipino edgelords one could occasionally find on the Internet who are always complaining about the negative aspects of Filipino culture, especially its anti-intellectualism. (Me included.) I actually believe I get this mindset: it probably stems from bitterness that the Westernized bubble that was in place during their childhoods was fake.
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:22 PM
 
102 posts, read 118,449 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolopo View Post
This is overly dramatic. The standard of beauty didn't switch from mestiza to morena during the Marcos Era. This was written in 2006 and I'm really surprised he said that. Even today, mestiza is still the standard of beauty, even moreso in 2006. Also, Marcos didn't specifically have anything about mestizos. His wife was partially of Spanish-descent from a wealthy Spanish family. Also, the move from Manila to the suburbs would have happened regardless of WW2. It's the natural progression- wealthy families move out to the suburbs because they want more space. I can't imagine those wealthy families staying in Intramuros, Ermita, and Malate forever. Even most Chinese families moved from Binondo. I can see what he means by the Spanish-Filipinos losing their cultural center, but they have just created new cultural centers that aren't as obvious.
They created Forbes park, Dasmariñas, Bel Air as "replacements" to Malate/Ermita. They even replaced Escolta with Makati. Lol
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:44 PM
 
102 posts, read 118,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackierudetsky View Post
''Perhaps we can say that the Spanish mestizo doesn't want to be at home in the Philippines at all. He would rather embrace the romantic notion of an Occidental Philippines that cannot be, than to become part of the Oriental Philippines which exists before him right now. And with this decision to deny the context which surrounds oneself, comes the corresponding consequences: The insecurity of never being accepted and the paranoia that someone out there is always trying to get you. Time to build those walls again.'' TBH, of all the things I could be reminded of, I was reminded of all the Filipino edgelords one could occasionally find on the Internet who are always complaining about the negative aspects of Filipino culture, especially its anti-intellectualism. (Me included.) I actually believe I get this mindset: it probably stems from bitterness that the Westernized bubble that was in place during their childhoods was fake.
But isn't these new "bubble" also dictated by class? I am pretty sure that rich natives, Chinese and Sindhis also live in Forbes Park. For sure, Nancy Binay doesn't live in Tondo or Sampaloc

The one thing that I agree though is there is a sector of society that does not fully accept them, which I believe stems from the trauma of colonization.

Ironically, though. Most Hispanistas and Americanistas I met are not mestizos but natives. It seems to me that a lot of rich natives have disdain for native cultures and they only get into native cultures when a foreigner(usually white, western) feature that aspect of the culture.

For example, Igorot tattooing used to be looked down on, but it became popular and the "poster child" of Filipinoness after it was featured by Lars Krutak (in an exagerrated way, I must say). Without that kind of external validation, the Igorot tattoo would remain to be seen as "backwards"

On your last sentence, I believe that many Filipinos just absorbed/internalized racist tirades against Filipino culture that many of us parrot without even critically looking at it. It's like this "Western opinion" about our culture is "edgy".

As a people, we unfortunately tend to internalize discrimination.

Last edited by Bituingmaykinang; 02-21-2020 at 11:02 PM..
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Old 02-22-2020, 01:37 AM
 
1,112 posts, read 853,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bituingmaykinang View Post
They created Forbes park, Dasmariñas, Bel Air as "replacements" to Malate/Ermita. They even replaced Escolta with Makati. Lol

Don't forget Ayala Alabang. More mestizos live there than in Makati
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Old 02-22-2020, 03:18 AM
 
1,284 posts, read 1,017,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bituingmaykinang View Post
But isn't these new "bubble" also dictated by class? I am pretty sure that rich natives, Chinese and Sindhis also live in Forbes Park. For sure, Nancy Binay doesn't live in Tondo or Sampaloc

The one thing that I agree though is there is a sector of society that does not fully accept them, which I believe stems from the trauma of colonization.

Ironically, though. Most Hispanistas and Americanistas I met are not mestizos but natives. It seems to me that a lot of rich natives have disdain for native cultures and they only get into native cultures when a foreigner(usually white, western) feature that aspect of the culture.

For example, Igorot tattooing used to be looked down on, but it became popular and the "poster child" of Filipinoness after it was featured by Lars Krutak (in an exagerrated way, I must say). Without that kind of external validation, the Igorot tattoo would remain to be seen as "backwards"

On your last sentence, I believe that many Filipinos just absorbed/internalized racist tirades against Filipino culture that many of us parrot without even critically looking at it. It's like this "Western opinion" about our culture is "edgy".

As a people, we unfortunately tend to internalize discrimination.
I know, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with appearance, what I was saying was that my theory is that such edgelords have this backstory: they became like this out of trauma, like it was because of people telling them there was only one way to act Filipino and that they weren't acting Filipino enough, and then at some point, they snapped, and thought, ''Fine, if being Filipino means acting like you, then from now on, I won't be Filipino!''

Last edited by jackierudetsky; 02-22-2020 at 03:30 AM..
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Old 02-22-2020, 10:09 AM
 
102 posts, read 118,449 times
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I think their disconnect with the larger mainstream culture is internalized discrimination. Whether we admit it or not, there is a notion in the Philippines that anything foreign in superior, while anything indigenous is inferior.

So, in effect, you have one side that is extremely nativist, and the other would be extreme xenophilia.

It's like how a lot of rich natives living in the Philippines try so hard to be "American" even if they never lived in the US. Even Tim Cone and Norman Black are more Filipinized than these people.
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Old 02-22-2020, 08:11 PM
 
1,284 posts, read 1,017,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackierudetsky View Post
I know, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with appearance, what I was saying was that my theory is that such edgelords have this backstory: they became like this out of trauma, like it was because of people telling them there was only one way to act Filipino and that they weren't acting Filipino enough, and then at some point, they snapped, and thought, ''Fine, if being Filipino means acting like you, then from now on, I won't be Filipino!''
I was talking more about people who are both unpatriotic and act like they have been personally victimized by the Philippines. Then again, maybe I'm just projecting my backstory on them.

Last edited by jackierudetsky; 02-22-2020 at 09:19 PM..
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Old 02-22-2020, 10:15 PM
 
102 posts, read 118,449 times
Reputation: 34
I still think it goes back to internalized discrimination. Pretty much that's the same line of thinking that foreigners (Western sexpats, usually) who refuse to integrate and claim they have been "victimized" by the Philippines because they want the rest of the population to "adjust to them".

In their case rather than sexpats, they are Filipinos
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Old 02-22-2020, 10:38 PM
 
1,284 posts, read 1,017,869 times
Reputation: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bituingmaykinang View Post
I still think it goes back to internalized discrimination. Pretty much that's the same line of thinking that foreigners (Western sexpats, usually) who refuse to integrate and claim they have been "victimized" by the Philippines because they want the rest of the population to "adjust to them".

In their case rather than sexpats, they are Filipinos
IDK, I didn't know this kinda thing happened, I came up with this line of thinking all by myself.
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