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Aside from the fearmongering hyperbole -- Hawaii has the most restrictive gun laws ... good news: very low violent crime rate there ...
Correlation ! = causation.
Let's separate legal - lawful gun ownership by law abiding citizens from illegal guns owned by criminals .. The two are not the same ..
The general trend is that counties w/ liberal CCW shall issue permits have lower crime rates .. It's actually the opposite of what you referenced in your Hawaii anecdote.. However, it is still just 'correlation' as many variables/factors go into determining crime rate.
That being said, greater than 93% of crimes committed using guns are committed by illegally possessed guns .. So, again.. Fear mongering
I suspect the same thing, that the open carry proponents were demonstrating to support their right to open carry, and was on TV news coverage a few or several months ago. If that's the case then I believe they hurt their cause more than helping it.
The big reason why you have CCW so it doesn't anyone out .. Open carry is stupid in my opinion and having it vs. CCW is only to make sure that when people start exercising their right to do so that it freaks people out and it gets banned too ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound
The way I understood it you could carry your ammunition too as long as long as the gun wasn't loaded. For example, empty gun in holster and live clip on belt in clip holder. Please correct me if this is wrong (anybody).
You're wrong.. You are not allowed to transport a loaded clip w/ you at any time unless licensed to do so... If you do so, you are considered to have a 'loaded weapon' even if a gun isn't present on you. The transportation allows for an empty 'clip' , bullets separated from clip, and gun unloaded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound
I support our Constitutional right to own and bear arms, but I can't imagine myself ever wanting to carry a firearm whether open or concealed.
That's fine .. you are entitled to your view. However, others have the right to do so and another's views shouldn't impede those rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound
Furthermore I'd be very uncomfortable if I went into a restaurant or store and saw armed customers. I'd probably rather leave than patronize the business. In my opinion guns should be kept at home or on the firing range (or out in hunting territory during season).
.. Meh, I saw a guy the other day in Mountain View during happy hour who had a gun holstered .. Didn't bother me a bit. Then again, I am informed on the matter and knew it was as useless as someone walking around w/ a hammer in their tool belt .. Ignorance underlies most fears in the world... This is no exception .. A psycho who intends to shoot someone isn't going to exactly go telegraphing it w/ a holster outside his pants .. and if Calif. counties weren't soo stupid it would be CCW and the person would actually be in trouble if it was seen .. Thus, you wouldn't even be aware of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound
So I'm in favor of banning open carry at least in heavily populated areas of California (like Los Angeles). It doesn't seem to matter as much to me if the carry is happening in sparsely populated areas like the mountains or desert.
I am open for banning it and approving it for CCW .. CCW makes a hellavuh lot more sense
YTG, thanks for the correction. In any case I still can't see myself going armed in public whether open or concealed, and it would still bother me to see armed citizens in restaurants or stores. Going armed seems inappropriate to me in the areas of L.A. and Ventura Co. that I frequent. I don't venture into the bad parts of the city where you might actually need a gun.
Of course if somebody is legally carrying concealed then I wouldn't be able to notice it so I guess it wouldn't bother me. There's probably people doing it illegally that I never saw.
What is the point to openly carrying a weapon and not having access to any ammunition? How is that going to help anything? You'd be better off with a brick!
Work - Somebody goes postal
Store - Gabby Giffords, need I say more?
Mall - Robbed in the parking lot
School - Columbine
This just in ...
Number of deaths for leading causes of death
Heart disease: 616,067
Cancer: 562,875
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924 Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706
Alzheimer's disease: 74,632
Diabetes: 71,382
Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448
Septicemia: 34,828
Yes, the #5 leading cause of death in the U.S are morons.. The idiot who doesn't use a turning signal .. The idiot who runs lights, doesn't stop at stop signs.. The person talking on their cellphone while driving .. The j*ck wagon who finds other things so important in life that they dont pay attention and cause accidents that kill people ..
And again, i point out people's ignorance in equating crime events/statistics about people who illegally posses firearms w/ those who legally posses firearms.
This just in, 10 dumba**es not using turn signals just put people in the hospital today ..
The cases you site are rare and pale in comparison to the amount of idiots not paying attention on a daily basis that kill people ... and still, the number of crimes committed by LEGAL gun owners is very low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar42
I thought the whole point of having a CCW was that you never know when you'll need it. I tend to only leave my home when I'm going to places where CCW's are not allowed (work, stores, restaurants etc.) so where is the benefit? In your case it seems like you would only "carry" when you're going for leisure rides to nowhere which proves my point about impracticality.
You don't need a CCW at work so give me a break .. Stop being foolish.
If you were inclined and had reason to be fearful on the commute to work .. you simply grab your holster on the way out your house .. CCW to your car.. and when you get to your job ... un-CCW and walk in.
In my case, I would CCW for instance if I was strolling through Oakland .. or San Jose .. at times when i am doing trips on my motorcycle .. roadside safety in case something happens .. there are many cases ..
The realization an intelligent gun owner has is that a gun doesn't make you invisible .. there are times when having one on you reduces risk for you a great deal and there are times when it doesn't...
Carrying one becomes as routine as picking up your keys when you head out the door .. It really isn't that serious and the fear/seriousness for which non-gun owners have about it freaks me out as it seems to spawn from ignorance.
What is the point to openly carrying a weapon and not having access to any ammunition? How is that going to help anything? You'd be better off with a brick!
Yes, CCW makes a hellavuh lot more sense .. But welcome to california where much of the laws and idiot policies don't make sense .. IMO they never wanted either .. They allow open carry because they know if people start exercising it by and large that they can use it as ammo to ban it all .. Which is what they did ..
The cases you site are rare and pale in comparison to the amount of idiots not paying attention on a daily basis that kill people ... and still, the number of crimes committed by LEGAL gun owners is very low.
But if they're so rare than what is the point of having a firearm on you at all times? You can't have it both ways...
Quote:
In my case, I would CCW for instance if I was strolling through Oakland .. or San Jose .. at times when i am doing trips on my motorcycle .. roadside safety in case something happens .. there are many cases ...
Strolling around Oakland...riding a motorcycle in busy urban areas...you don't strike me as someone who is too concerned with personal safety
You seem to be talking about a fantasy CCW world in which you could carry your firearm wherever you want. Even in Texas, one of the the most gun friendly states in the US, you are very limited in where you can legally carry a CCW. AFAIK you don't need a CCW [permit] to carry a firearm in your vehicle.
Correlation ! = causation.
Let's separate legal - lawful gun ownership by law abiding citizens from illegal guns owned by criminals .. The two are not the same ..
The general trend is that counties w/ liberal CCW shall issue permits have lower crime rates .. It's actually the opposite of what you referenced in your Hawaii anecdote.. However, it is still just 'correlation' as many variables/factors go into determining crime rate.
That being said, greater than 93% of crimes committed using guns are committed by illegally possessed guns .. So, again.. Fear mongering
You have no idea how you come across to others, do you? Astounding the way you jump in with assumptions of others' meanings -- and your Universally assigned mandate to educate all of us "lower" unintelligent beings. Get over yourself.
I never made any "correlation -- causation" statement ... and I don't need you to teach me about it, okay, kid? I wrote: "good news -- very low violent crime rate [in Hawaii]" ... I didn't say 'the violent crime rate is low due to restrictive gun laws' ... nor did I say 'lucky for the population in Hawaii that they have only a very low violent crime rate and thus there is less concern for personal safety on the level of personal gun ownership'.
I just said .... ....... ............
And while I'm telling you to take a pill ... try re-reading the posts to others you made following the one to me. See if you can count the number of times you call people "stupid", "idiots", "morons", "j*ckwagons", "dumba**es", "fools" and "foolish", "ignorant", "psycho", and the like ... bet you run out of fingers and toes. And I repeat, all the blather about how responsible people with gun safety education etc etc etc should be taken with one hell of a grain of salt since it all still relies on self-control and emotional balance -- which, if you look at the course of human history, has always been in real short supply.
But if they're so rare than what is the point of having a firearm on you at all times? You can't have it both ways...
I can't .. have .. it .. both ways... .. Yeah, I can't possibly lawfully possess a CCW and ascertain which places I can lawfully conceal carry and decide when it makes sense to CCW .. Again, you present this false image that people take showers w/ their guns .. Relax dude ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar42
Strolling around Oakland...riding a motorcycle in busy urban areas...you don't strike me as someone who is too concerned with personal safety
You don't strike me as someone who is informed or thinks logically .. Neither of these opinions has anything to do w/ the discussion though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar42
You seem to be talking about a fantasy CCW world in which you could carry your firearm wherever you want. Even in Texas, one of the the most gun friendly states in the US, you are very limited in where you can legally carry a CCW. AFAIK you don't need a CCW [permit] to carry a firearm in your vehicle.
No, you seem to be suggested that people w/ CCW are of that impression. I am far from it and corrected your crazy views about CCW in the office... I own a gun and am well aware of the laws and CCW restrictions. thnx.
In California, when transporting a gun in your car, it must be disassembled (no bullets in the 'clip') and properly secured/ 'stored' .. I kind of know that already
You have no idea how you come across to others, do you? Astounding the way you jump in with assumptions of others' meanings -- and your Universally assigned mandate to educate all of us "lower" unintelligent beings. Get over yourself.
Get over me if you can .. You are putting me on a pedestal I don't deserve ... But thanks anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
I never made any "correlation -- causation" statement ... and I don't need you to teach me about it, okay, kid? I wrote: "good news -- very low violent crime rate [in Hawaii]" ... I didn't say 'the violent crime rate is low due to restrictive gun laws' ... nor did I say 'lucky for the population in Hawaii that they have only a very low violent crime rate and thus there is less concern for personal safety on the level of personal gun ownership'.
There's a reason why you try to be clear the first time ... Given the direction of the commentary, your juxtaposition of words implied that .. Let me refresh your memory :
"Aside from the fearmongering hyperbole -- Hawaii has the most restrictive gun laws ... good news: very low violent crime rate there ..."
And while I'm telling you to take a pill ... try re-reading the posts to others you made following the one to me. See if you can count the number of times you call people "stupid", "idiots", "morons", "j*ckwagons", "dumba**es", "fools" and "foolish", "ignorant", "psycho", and the like ... bet you run out of fingers and toes. And I repeat, all the blather about how responsible people with gun safety education etc etc etc should be taken with one hell of a grain of salt since it all still relies on self-control and emotional balance -- which, if you look at the course of human history, has always been in real short supply.
Back off slick.
Call a spade a spade ..
As for your reference to history.. Go read present day statistics on crimes committed by people who legally possess guns... There are millions of people in the U.S who legally posses guns .. The prosperous suggestion by 'ignorant' people that they are 'dangerous' (against the proven facts that they aren't) is nothing more than foolish/idiotic/stupid fear mongering ..
Is that pc enough for you?
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anyone out .. Open carry is stupid in my opinion and having it vs. CCW is only to make sure that when people start exercising their right to do so that it freaks people out and it gets banned too .. 
.. Meh, I saw a guy the other day in Mountain View during happy hour who had a gun holstered .. Didn't bother me a bit. Then again, I am informed on the matter and knew it was as useless as someone walking around w/ a hammer in their tool belt .. Ignorance underlies most fears in the world... This is no exception .. A psycho who intends to shoot someone isn't going to exactly go telegraphing it w/ a holster outside his pants .. and if Calif. counties weren't soo stupid it would be CCW and the person would actually be in trouble if it was seen .. Thus, you wouldn't even be aware of it.
