CA is the 5th worst state in getting value for your money (San Francisco: hardwood floors, appliances)

[Berrie143]

Regardless of whether the American Dream is dead and gone or was an illusion in the first place, one fact remains- owning a home is still paramount to a lot of people and not in just CA. When I said before that my husband and I SHOULD be able to own a home here in CA because we work very hard and are good, solid people, I meant every word. If people like us, solid middle class, aren't able to buy homes, where does that leave the economy? In the toilet, that's where. The country NEEDS a middle class to keep it afloat, period.

And it's not just a matter of picking up and moving to another state for most people- a lot of the time that isn't an option. For us, we have the option and almost exercised that option about 18 months ago. Do we regret not moving forward to leaving CA and having a more secure and comfortable life? Do we regret putting the feelings and views of my parents and siblings ahead of ours and letting the thought of leaving my in-laws and everyone else behind scare us? You betcha. There are days where we still can't believe it. In the end, though, staying in CA allowed my husband to get into a better job that will offer more security and opportunity- unfortunately, it still isn't enough for CA. And it wasn't an accident that the company he works for has hubs exactly where we had wanted to be in another state.

At the same time, it isn't right to push the middle class out of the range of being able to live and not struggle so much. Yeah, yeah, life isn't fair, I get that, trust me. It still doesn't mean that we are willing to allow a dream of ours to go unrealized.

[radiolibre99]

Again you guys keep assuming that any complaints about CA equal to not liking any bit of life here and that the simple solutions are to put up and shut up, or move. Someone brought up the brilliant suggestion of starting your own business too. Lol.

At the end of the day it's still the same old boosting no matter if it in the Texas forum or the CA forum. Same premise, different arguments. There's the reality of things and if you don't like it, git outta dodge, go some place else that will make you happier.

My point was never to actually complain that I'm unhappy in CA but that I can sympathize with those workers who do feel a little cheated by the reality of things as Derek put it. I feel for the working people here in a job market that sucks. When I hear their complaints I don't brush them off as simpletons who don't get the reality of the market and should just move to Podunk, AK. I think yeah it sucks, make the most of it while you can and if nothing happens for you, try to get out.

My point is that there is an understanding that things are bit uneven no matter how much reality sets the stage. And that you guys are not giving any different arguments than a Texan would when a Californian transplant complains about the lack of XYZ in TX. It's boosting mostly because you guys won't even acknowledge that this reality in CA as it is now and compared to before does suck and is uneven. Stats prove it as do many Californians who packed up and left but all I hear in here is boosting. Not just boosting but utter defense like the tired old smug Econ 101 quip and that things will skyrocket if we raise wages or actually laughing off any activist measures as implausible.

What is the difference between y'all and the redneck in AK that defends his choices in life?

[jlloyd87]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

What is the difference between y'all and the redneck in AK that defends his choices in life?

I've never heard anybody refer to Alaskans as rednecks. Bush people is more common, at least in my circles. Plus, COL isn't all that low in AK. Or are you meaning AR? Arkansas?

[radiolibre99]

Berrie143, you're not gonna get any understanding here in this forum because it's made up the same you made your bed types that you'd find on any forum. The closest to showing any sympathy is Tulemutt.

I've seen this in the Texas forum too whenever a CA transplant would attempt to inquire about why Texas lacks this or that social program, housing assistance, city infrastructure, more developed land use, better zoning and what not. The texans there release a verbal assault saying take your liberal butt back to CA if it'll make ya happier. Armchair economic theorizing then consumes the debate with people assuming that it any of those suggestions were to be enacted then Texas wouldn't be the bastion of liberty anymore but a haven for liberals who will destroy the state.

I do agree that to do have to adjust your mindset here in ca. That's a given but it doesn't make any of your grievances any less true.

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by jlloyd87

I've never heard anybody refer to Alaskans as rednecks. Bush people is more common, at least in my circles. Plus, COL isn't all that low in AK. Or are you meaning AR? Arkansas?

I meant Arkansas but you could use it to deflect debate further if you'd like. Be my guest.

[jlloyd87]

I don't really think there is a debate here. A person that is not happy in California has options. They can move to a more affordable location such as Arkansas or Texas. They can stay in California, and try to improve their lives somehow. Or they can sit in their same position, and blame their poor situation on the area they love. These will all resort in different levels of mental health.

A debate occurs when somebody attempts to tell you which of those options you should choose. You will have to make the choice for yourself (or the possible complainers that you say you're defending).

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by jlloyd87

I don't really think there is a debate here. A person that is not happy in California has options. They can move to a more affordable location such as Arkansas or Texas. They can stay in California, and try to improve their lives somehow. Or they can sit in their same position, and blame their poor situation on the area they love. These will all resort in different levels of mental health.

A debate occurs when somebody attempts to tell you which of those options you should choose. You will have to make the choice for yourself (or the possible complainers that you say you're defending).

The situation is bigger than just the area.

Look, a person can do more than one thing. I think the situation in LA sucks, I recognize that but at the same time I deal with it as a single man who knows I always have the option to leave. That level of optimism lets me pursue a lot of opportunities here and the make the most out of a situation that leaves people in tatters with out the options you so smugly put on the table.

To do my part, I volunteer or donate to organizations seeking to elicit moderate change by pushing for more affordable housing laws, higher wages and less cuts to programs.

Now that's a way to maintain a healthy of balance of recognizing the cons but making the most of it. Yet, even when I asked about viable solutions, all I got was responses that higher wages will increase prices, lower housing will infest the great state with more lower income people, and the reality of things is already asserted as though its a natural law. That's the basis for my entire point. That you guys aren't in some morally superior position by saying the complainers have no grounds to complain.

It's the same level of boosting and bashing you'd see in a red state forum. It's just so wild to see it happening with supposed liberals from an innovative state.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

What is the difference between y'all and the redneck in AK that defends his choices in life?

When trying to have a rational conversation with someone on CD and they resort to calling others names like 'redneck' who disagree with them it's obvious they have already lost all credibility. At that stage the thread is no longer of value as it spirals downhill from there.

Enjoy your cause to lower California housing prices for the the majority of residents who live here, whether based in reality or not. Everyone who doesn't join in is obviously redneck like those in AK, nice touch. Next we'll be labeled Nazis for not buying in to this same attitude and mindset.

See Godwin's Law regarding forum discussion devolving.

Have fun with your rants. Bye.

Derek

[jlloyd87]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

The situation is bigger than just the area.

Look, a person can do more than one thing. I think the situation in LA sucks, I recognize that but at the same time I deal with it as a single man who knows I always have the option to leave. That level of optimism lets me pursue a lot of opportunities here and the make the most out of a situation that leaves people in tatters with out the options you so smugly put on the table.

To do my part, I volunteer or donate to organizations seeking to elicit moderate change by pushing for more affordable housing laws, higher wages and less cuts to programs.

Now that's a way to maintain a healthy of balance of recognizing the cons but making the most of it. Yet, even when I asked about viable solutions, all I got was responses that higher wages will increase prices, lower housing will infest the great state with more lower income people, and the reality of things is already asserted as though its a natural law. That's the basis for my entire point. That you guys aren't in some morally superior position by saying the complainers have no grounds to complain.

It's the same level of boosting and bashing you'd see in a red state forum. It's just so wild to see it happening with supposed liberals from an innovative state.

I can't speak for everybody else, but there is no moral superiority here. Many of the comments were suggestions directed at people that are upset with their situation, and could be used to improve their situation. I'm sure there is nobody here that can claim that they wouldn't be happier if their cost of living were lower. However, the reality of the situation is that we are able to live in California, and there is a premium placed on such great living.

As far as cheaper housing leading to more people, it really is a circular argument. I can tell you that I have 5 family members back in Texas that cite the high housing costs as the reason they wouldn't move to California. Lower house prices in as ideal of a location as California will lead to more people moving in which will then lead to higher housing costs.

We have no real reason to complain. The people who should be upset are places like New York where people pay insane prices for everything, and then get snowed in every year. Or Portland, where cost of living is getting crazy high, and they see less sun than Alaskans.

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

When trying to have a rational conversation with someone on CD and they resort to calling others names like 'redneck' who disagree with them it's obvious they have already lost all credibility. At that stage the thread is no longer of value as it spirals downhill from there.

Enjoy your cause to lower California housing prices for the the majority of residents who live here, whether based in reality or not. Everyone who doesn't join in is obviously redneck like those in AK, nice touch. Next we'll be labeled Nazis for not buying in to this same attitude and mindset.

See Godwin's Law regarding forum discussion devolving.

Have fun with your rants. Bye.

Derek

My point was they many in here, maybe not you say disparaging things about other parts of the country and refer to those folks as 'red neck'. I believe some one in here actually said that a con in dealing with the low col in AR might be "cowboy culture" whatever that means.

I really think you need better reading comprehension with that attitude, bye!