CA is the 5th worst state in getting value for your money (San Francisco: house, buy)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Well I'm not one to believe that our troubles are due to a conspiratorial elite but that we live in a society largely controlled by owners of wealth who post war lost a bit of their grip of the political system after an unstable depression had them make concessions to the working class; higher wages, shorter hours, unionization, and worker protections did a lot to create a middle class. Just having a 30% unionized workforce did a lot for the country as a whole. Wages kept pace, we were the biggest competitors since Germany and Japan were laid to rubble and this went on for two decades.

Zip forward to the seventies and the big dogs were realizing that at this rate wages would keep rising and start cutting into their profits. Inflation was out of control and the economy was stagnating. So what was the answer? Union busting. Ronald Reagan gave the ok after firing the traffic controllers to kill the unions. Next was to undue the bastard Keynesianism of the post war era and adopt the largely pro business economics of Milton Friedman. Wages no longer kept pace and credit filled in the hole for the loss of purchasing power. We had financial speculation and bubbles propping up what was once an economy based on real trade and manufacturing. Financiers began to replace industrialists as the Forbes richest.


This is economic history. It wasn't a conspiracy. It was just total a economic policy shift. It can be changed back.

And yes I'm young but I see that as a benefit rather than a burden because I've noticed that all the old timer baby boomer types either believe one of two things; that it is how it is so put up and shut up, OR its all a conspiracy to undue the country.

Both those beliefs are misguided because they follow a terrible premise; that the US system is near perfect and exceptional so the fault lies elsewhere, either in the individual or a nefarious plot by elitists to bring it down from within.

I concur with your analysis. I am 68 years old, I've lived through it and watched it happen.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Well I'm not one to believe that our troubles are due to a conspiratorial elite. We live in a society largely controlled by owners of wealth who post war lost a bit of their grip of the political system and want that power back. After the depression they made concessions to the working class; higher wages, shorter hours, unionization, and worker protections. It did a lot to create the middle class we remember. Just having a 30% unionized workforce did a lot for the country as a whole. Wages kept pace, we were the biggest competitors since Germany and Japan were laid to rubble and this went on for two decades.

Zip forward to the seventies and the big dogs were realizing that at this rate wages would keep rising and start cutting into their profits. Inflation was out of control and the economy was stagnating. So what was the answer? Union busting. Ronald Reagan gave the ok after firing the traffic controllers to kill the unions. Next was to undue the bastard Keynesianism of the post war era and adopt the largely pro business economics of Milton Friedman. Wages no longer kept pace and credit filled in the hole for the loss of purchasing power. We had financial speculation and bubbles propping up what was once an economy based on real trade and manufacturing. Financiers began to replace industrialists as the Forbes richest.


This is economic history. It wasn't a conspiracy. It was just total a economic policy shift. It can be changed back.

And yes I'm young but I see that as a benefit rather than a burden because I've noticed that all the old timer baby boomer types either believe one of two things; that it is how it is so put up and shut up, OR its all a conspiracy to undue the country.

Both those beliefs are misguided because they follow a terrible premise; that the US system is near perfect and exceptional so the fault lies elsewhere, either in the individual or a nefarious plot by elitists to bring it down from within.

Tulemutt you fall under the category that believes that it's been this way since time immemorial. That its just a universal law or human nature. You guys are really stuck on the whole human nature thing. You don't see any differences in each era, no nuances and how each epoch has produced good and bad, progress and regress.

Your observations of mid-to-end of last century are pretty accurate. And then you fall into blather I have read from you over and over in several threads. I don't see where you get your accusations.

I never said there was a conspiracy. And I haven't read any other "boomer" say there was either. In fact, I recently made a point in a thread response - I think to a post of yours - that this devolution is NOT a conspiracy in the common usage of that term. It is opportunism by a class of very gifted, manipulative people. And they aren't working as brothers in the process. They have allied interests, but they are competitors for the most part. Just smart enough to know how and when to apply /pursue common leverage at various junctures. They'd like to kill one another as much as anything. So no, no conspiracy.

You also make a big deal out of the "this is how things are" theme. Well, in case you haven't noticed, yeah, things are what they are. But this simple observation of reality is not predictive. It's merely an accurate observation of present state.

Now then, you want to protest that we shouldn't accept the present state. Yeah, good for you. That's the job of youth. But what you don't yet appreciate is how to analyze the long view. You'll get there. Teaches you how to pick your battles - and, most importantly, what's worth battling for and what's bull tweet.

Then there is your accusation that I, and mysterious "other boomers" whose posts I haven't read, are claiming the US system is perfect and exceptional. Where do you get this? Find one post of mine out of over 3000 where I've claimed any such thing. Not even a hint of such will you find. You're making this up. Fabrication. Reading phantom posts. You've never read any sentimental patriotism or jingoism from me. Ever.

The most interesting thing to observe about your protestations and mistaken accusations is how you keep cheerleading for the lifestyle promises of the mid-late 20th century. You're quite sure that this middle class dream of moderate wealth and property ownership, as was sold and experienced post-war until the recent crash, is the highest achievement society can create.

What it was, however, is entirely unsustainable. A farce. To say nothing of shallow anyway.

And where do you get this?

You don't see any differences in each era, no nuances and how each epoch has produced good and bad, progress and regress.

How do you know what I see in each era? Lmao.
You keep telling me what I and others are saying - that's never been said. Goodnight kid. Keep up the good fight for us all. I got a big day planned for tomorrow. Gonna walk the dog. It'll be great.

[8to32characters]

I wouldn't move to any of those "orange" states rent-free with paid utilities.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

And yes I'm young but I see that as a benefit rather than a burden because I've noticed that all the old timer baby boomer types either believe one of two things; that it is how it is so put up and shut up, OR its all a conspiracy to undue [sic] the country.

You were doing OK until you came up with this overly-broad and sweeping mischaracterization of an entire generation.

I'm on the dark side of 68 years old. That makes me a Baby Boomer - not a "baby boomer type" which I don't believe exists - a Baby Boomer. I believe neither of your suppositions. Therefore, your entire premise is faulty.

You are now free to continue posting your generalizations. You're welcome!

[Tulemutt]

Is this where "boomers" renew the popular millennial-bashing I was noticing a few months back?

So many labels. So many generalizations. So many ideological cliches. So little time.

Methinks it's time to walk with Mr. Dog. Enjoy the sunny morning.

[radiolibre99]

Oh c'mon like there are no generalizations of millenials? There's an article coming out everyday on yahoo about how my generation sucks at work, can't manage money and are just plain lost.

I know of course not all boomers act like what I described but I've noticed the main subscribers to the Fox News punditry and Alex jones type conspiracies are aging baby boomers who think our troubles are due to infiltrating forces like a powerful corporatist elite or a band of cultural Marxists.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by radiolibre99

Oh c'mon like there are no generalizations of millenials? There's an article coming out everyday on yahoo about how my generation sucks at work, can't manage money and are just plain lost.

I know of course not all boomers act like what I described but I've noticed the main subscribers to the Fox News punditry and Alex jones type conspiracies are aging baby boomers who think our troubles are due to infiltrating forces like a powerful corporatist elite or a band of cultural Marxists.

Maybe Yahoo's onto something.

Do you mean to say millenials aren't "aging" as well. Quick! What's their secret? I'm on the downhill slide here.

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by StanfordGrad12

Home equity and retirement are not everything. I have educational and career opportunities here that someone in Iowa couldn't even dream of having.

True, CA higher education can only be matched by the East coast but does that mean that some one who goes to Stanford has to remain in CA to get a good enough career opportunity? No. Last Stanford grad i knew was a neuroscience major and has a really great job in the Houston medical district. He has no desire to return to CA and doesn't feel as though he's selling himself short.

But then again, you act like a UChicago grad or Rice U grad wouldn't find amazing career opportunities in the heartland?

[radiolibre99]

Originally Posted by StanfordGrad12

They could in cities like Chicago not to the same extent as the Bay Area though. Def not in Mobile, AL or Des Moines, IA like many people on here like try to compare California to.

What about Atlanta, Miami, Austin, New Orleans, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Nashville, Houston, Dallas, OKC, Charlotte? I could go on. I know a guy who chose Charlotte over NYC to do banking and now owns a huge lake house that would trump a snooty guy in a condo in the Bay Area.

You may not think he's contributing to the zeitgeist in an eclectic would class city but as far as his standards are concerned he's fulfilled.

[radiolibre99]

Same reason. There are certain intangibles in life that are priceless.

I understand and that's why I'm in LA. I get it.

But to others those things don't matter. It doesn't make their desires any less valid than yours. Also most times, their desires pan out a lot quicker with better results than people here striving for a dream.