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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 146 66.06%
No 75 33.94%
Voters: 221. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-04-2014, 10:38 PM
 
342 posts, read 471,451 times
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Some say that they are a nuisance. Others see them as freedom fighters. Since the conquest of French Canada in the mid 1700's, there has been a conceted effort to keep Quebecois culture alive amidst a sea of over 330 million Anglos. Despite being marginalization by the Anglo-dominated government and being assimilated in other provinces, French speakers have persisted as the majority in the province of Quebec. The Quebec seperatists lost referendums for independence in 1980 and 1995 (the second time by a razor thin margin of 1%) but these elections have been called into question under allegations of vote tampering and fraud. Despite these defeats, independence remains a permanent fixture in Quebec and greater Canadian politics.

What do you think? Does the Quebec independence movement carry legitimate grievances, or are they a group of opportunistic troublemakers?
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:42 AM
 
35,316 posts, read 48,692,616 times
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I suppose they have legitimate concerns that their culture will be engulfed by the 350 million Anglos living outside the borders of Quebec, however i dont think separation is the answer as current Anglo demographic in Quebec is a mere 8%, French is the legal language on signs and much of the work place as dictated in Quebecs Charter of the French Language, and there is OQLF which we call language police to ensure all linguistic rules and regulations are complied with.
At the moment the separatist party is having a leadership race and the front runner is a guy named
Pierre Karl Peladeau who just happens to own Quebecs Media giant Videotron =
Internet, TV, Mobile Telephony & Residential Telephony | Videotron
No one seems to notice what a conflict of interest this is or how he could use his company to subtly influence certain political outcomes.
Yes separatism is still alive and well in Quebec today its just in a down phase for the moment..
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,856 posts, read 9,812,751 times
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I understand where they're coming from, but I don't believe that separatism would be the right choice for Quebec. It has helped found and build a federation that was created so that the people within it could benefit from a stronger place in the world, and I think that still stands today. We're stronger together then we are apart. Canada has created an environment within which Quebec can thrive economically, protected by the stability and bargaining power of a large country with a larger internal market. Quebec, for example would not have as wide range of consumer goods available to it in French that it has today if it were not for foreign entities looking to enter the Canadian market and being bound by Canadian bilingualism laws. All of these things have helped contribute to making Quebec a great place to live, one envied by many Europeans which is why people from places like Portugal and many other countries move to Quebec and eventually integrate into the culture. The stronger position Quebec is in because of its position in Canada helps maintain its culture today, rather then being a threat to it, as it makes it a place more people want to move to and become a part of, rather then one more people want to move from, and it gets to be choosier then would be the case if it were more like, say, Poland economically. In the end, however, I think that Quebec should remain a part of Canada because it is part of the DNA of Canada and Canada is part of the DNA of Quebec. It has been there since the beginning, and if people of honest intentions throughout Canada continue to work for a federation where, despite compromising some control and battles for the benefits of a stronger whole, Quebec can feel satisfied that its culture and aspirations are respected, why shouldn't it stay and be proud of the democratic country it has helped build? French Canadians are equal partners in a country of their own making, Canada, a conquered people no more. There is no reason to reject the strength that comes of the harmony of the modern civic nationalism of Canada in favour of a forced return to ethnic nationalism, especially when I don't think it better serves either French Canadians or the many non-French Canadian ethnic minorities the "nous" of that movement tends to exclude and alienate. It only serves to turn brother against brother when we should be working to make the excellent country we currently have work for everyone. I personally feel the current state of affairs is a pretty good balance and that we're heading in the right direction, but dream of the day when Quebeckers will, in general, feel self assured about their place in the world, no matter how things turn out. My great preference would be for that to be an unreserved participation in a united federation.

Last edited by BIMBAM; 12-05-2014 at 02:44 AM..
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Old 12-05-2014, 04:56 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
25,722 posts, read 33,889,011 times
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Being a legitimate movement and being the best option to pursue are two entirely different things.
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Old 12-05-2014, 07:01 AM
 
1,217 posts, read 2,435,479 times
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I think it is a legitimate movement. People don't cause trouble for no reason and it's something that is hard to understand unless you experience history from their side. It is very difficult to have smooth control over a nation of people with a different culture, that was, let's no forget, taken over by force. It's in the history books now and it won't be changed anytime soon but I understand that Quebec has to take more serious measures to maintain it's culture/language or it will slowly dissipate into English - it's a tough spot to begin with. The independence movement is a more extreme expression of this concern. As much as I believe Quebec is far from oppressed in modern day Canada and actually has great advantages being part of Canada, some may argue too many advantages, I don't think the independence movement is muted forever. It can come back one day with strong force, but Quebec will have to get it's financial house in order to be taken seriously as a potential independent country. I admit (coming from the Anglo world) that I have a hard time understanding why Quebec can't thrive in Canada as it stands and be happy, but then again, I am sitting on this side of the fence. People around the world throughout history go through extreme measures all the time to assert their independence as a nation.
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Old 12-05-2014, 08:16 AM
 
837 posts, read 1,023,563 times
Reputation: 1952
((((

Quebec sucks. Get rid of them.

I mean really...THAT many french people can't be good.

I think Quebec (and the French) are singlehandedly responsible for like 55% of the world's present problems.

Let them go.

Oh! And culture...well, folks, culture died in the 80's before the interweb. Get over it. If a nation clings to its past it makes a big statement about their future. Sitting on your laurels gets you nowhere. If you see a french man (Quebec or otherwise) kick him in the groin. If you see a french girl...well, steer clear > Hairy smelly armpits

Quebec really really sucks. That smell in Detroit and New Jersey is Quebec's fault.

If they vanished tomorrow who would care. Not me, no way.
ALL FRENCH PEOPLE SUCK!

)))) sarcasm off
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:24 AM
 
342 posts, read 471,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnathanc View Post
I think it is a legitimate movement. People don't cause trouble for no reason and it's something that is hard to understand unless you experience history from their side. It is very difficult to have smooth control over a nation of people with a different culture, that was, let's no forget, taken over by force. It's in the history books now and it won't be changed anytime soon but I understand that Quebec has to take more serious measures to maintain it's culture/language or it will slowly dissipate into English - it's a tough spot to begin with. The independence movement is a more extreme expression of this concern. As much as I believe Quebec is far from oppressed in modern day Canada and actually has great advantages being part of Canada, some may argue too many advantages, I don't think the independence movement is muted forever. It can come back one day with strong force, but Quebec will have to get it's financial house in order to be taken seriously as a potential independent country. I admit (coming from the Anglo world) that I have a hard time understanding why Quebec can't thrive in Canada as it stands and be happy, but then again, I am sitting on this side of the fence. People around the world throughout history go through extreme measures all the time to assert their independence as a nation.
I think this is a really classy post. It is good to try understanding someone else's viewpoint. It is also good to respect their culture even when it seems so different. Where I am from the theme on the Quebecois was mostly along the line of "they are attention seeking idiots". I wish I could read French so I can see both sides better.
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Old 12-05-2014, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Toronto
13,330 posts, read 13,544,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrycarver View Post
Yea of course it's as legitimate movement as they come. But if the French think those monied English masters are going to let them decide their own fate they are delusional. Keep on stringin' em along like theyve been doing since forever. The French will always lose by little margin because thats how its designed to work. You cant win a rigged vote (or a rigged election for that matter).
Are you still beating over this dead horse lol...

Looks like these days Ontario and Quebec are starting to become closer so..... Remember, the last election in Quebec the Liberals under Mr. Couillard won a majority... I for one am thankful that Mr Couillard said Quebec is back at the table.. Now its time to get to work for the benefit and prosperity of all Canadians!

Philippe Couillard, Kathleen Wynne Warn Not To Write Off Central Canada
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Old 12-05-2014, 11:33 AM
 
261 posts, read 242,418 times
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Yes, of course Quebec independence is a legitimate movement, but as Acajack says, there's a difference between being legitimate and being the best option to pursue. Now, is Quebec better as part of Canada or as an independent country?

Here's what I think about this: normally it should be possible for Canada to be a country in which francophone Quebecers would feel at home, but as it turns out this has proved extremely difficult. It seems that the typical conception of what Canada is or should be held by Canadians outside Quebec, as well as (often) anglophones in Quebec, and that held by a good number of francophone Quebecers, are simply incompatible.

Honestly, one might think that it'd be sovereigntist Quebecers who'd present people with a fallacious choice between "Canada" and "Quebec", but in my experience it seems to be other Canadians who think that Quebecers need to change to "become" Canadian. And this idea also now appears to be infecting the Quebec federalist movement.
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
564 posts, read 981,143 times
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Majority rules. If you don't want to run with the herd, you can't expect it to stop or go around you. Canada constantly tries to do this, but it is doomed to failure.

Like the Aboriginals, the French have no choice but to separate and form their own independent nation or allow the natural dispersion and assimilation of their culture into the greater whole. There is no other way. The "you in your corner, us in ours" approach does not make for a healthy nation. In fact, by very definition it creates a failed one.

I'm tired of being held hostage or having to bend over backwards to accommodate a few petulant crybabies. The English won the war. It's done. If you don't like the game, take your ball and go home, or choose to join in and make a stronger team. We are becoming a nation of self-interested silos, and cohesion is rapidly diminishing. Of course, this has been the plan all along, to facilitate a North American union.
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