Illinois......are you staying or leaving? (Chicago, Time: rental, condo, student loan)

[CGab]

Originally Posted by big cats

it is hell. And that's the primary reason people are fleeing en masse.


Don't you get it? People don't leave just because they "don't like it". People flee for various reasons. Shall we count the ways il is hell? 1) ridiculous property taxes 2) ridiculous tolls 3) crumbling roads 4) horrid schools 5) soaring crime 6) corruption 7) supporting illegal immigration 8) violation of constitutional rights 9) high col 10) racism 11) job losses 12) soaring debt


all of the above literally plague chicago, and will continue to do so as long as you boneheads continue to vote blue. Its like you never learn your damn lessons!!! So go ahead and laugh that you find it funny how conservatives flee the hell that il/chi has become. We expats are the ones laughing at you clowns, with your forced smiles, as you wave from decks of the titanic. We've already taken the lifeboats outta there because we were smart to see the disaster il was about to become, and has become.

Perfectly said!!!

[Bellamouse]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

She's wrong, Flamadiddle. Florida is not any cheaper than Illinois, even with Illinois' tax burden factored in. Incomes are higher here. Retirees from the north flock to Florida in part because they made their money in places like Illinois and then "hide" it in low-tax havens like Florida. There's a reason many people wait until they're RETIRED to move to places like Florida. There's less economic opportunity. 13 percent of people in Illinois live in poverty. It's just shy of 17 percent in Florida. Don't get all worked up Bella, I'm not saying there's no economic opportunity in Florida, just less than Illinois. Specifically for SKILLED labor. As I always say, there are always a few exceptions.

https://www.missourieconomy.org/indi...ving/index.stm

We aren't retired. Not even close. Got jobs that pay significantly more down here. Our kids too. SIGNIFICANTLY more. Add that to no state income tax, lower property tax, and lower host of other taxes, it IS cheaper. "Stats" can say all they want, my REALITY says otherwise.

I didn't make my money in Chicago, I was losing in Chicago. As in, going backwards. Digging into savings each month just to make the basic bills. We are actually making our money down here. But no amount of reality will ever change the minds of people who live in the theoretical world of "stats".

The reality that over 100,000 left Illinois just last year alone doesn't say anything to them. They weren't all retirees. They weren't all "duped" by "crazy people" like me. They live in reality and their realities were just like mine. Bad.

[damba]

110% what he says below.

Originally Posted by GoCUBS1

Of course I'm staying. I can make a heck of a lot of money in this state, with a relatively low COL. There is a ton of business opportunity here - it is limitless. I can't keep up with it. And I enjoy the intelligence and work ethic of my Illinois associates.

I like the 4 seasons here. I like that I have easy train/road access to a big city, open spaces/ forest/ country, and a great lake for recreational activities. And I can easily hop on a plane to go anywhere at any time, for business or pleasure. My kids can attend top schools (and I am comparing them nationally) which qualify them for top colleges.

I like having easy access to some of the best and most diverse food, music, art, architecture, shopping, museums, sports, theater, universities in the world... I like that I can meet lots of different types of people from lots of different types of backgrounds, cultures, and interests...

[Vasily]

Originally Posted by flamadiddle

Staying, I don't believe all the doom and gloom. If people are leaving Illinois, I wonder from where? Here in the Western burbs, I'm seeing new homes going up so if everyone is leaving, who are they building them for?

The city and the collar counties are not losing population -- it's the rest of the state. College towns also seem to be in relatively good shape. In other words: if you're highly educated and live near Chicago or in a university town, you're probably doing OK. Surprise, surprise.

The Incredible Shrinking Illinois | Chicago magazine | Politics & City Life February 2016
Illinois loses more residents in 2016 than any other state - Chicago Tribune

[GoCUBS1]

Originally Posted by Bellamouse

We aren't retired. Not even close. Got jobs that pay significantly more down here. Our kids too. SIGNIFICANTLY more. Add that to no state income tax, lower property tax, and lower host of other taxes, it IS cheaper. "Stats" can say all they want, my REALITY says otherwise.

I didn't make my money in Chicago, I was losing in Chicago. As in, going backwards. Digging into savings each month just to make the basic bills. We are actually making our money down here. But no amount of reality will ever change the minds of people who live in the theoretical world of "stats".

The reality that over 100,000 left Illinois just last year alone doesn't say anything to them. They weren't all retirees. They weren't all "duped" by "crazy people" like me. They live in reality and their realities were just like mine. Bad.

Your REALITY does not reflect mine. Jobs do not pay SIGNIFICANTLY more in FL, and many of the jobs are low skill and seasonal. Also, from the stats I've seen (but maybe you have other data?), "Chicago" is not losing, it is the "state of Illinois" losing low skill manufacturing workers (e.g. downstate and Rockford), populations plummeting in gang/crime filled city neighborhoods, and reduction in Mexican immigrant population growth. The professional/intellectual/high-skilled population centers of IL in Chicago, suburbs, and IL university towns have been expanding in recent years. GOOD.





http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...oreUserAgent=1

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...oreUserAgent=1

[NealIRC]

GoCUBS1, so, what do you do for a living?

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Vasily

The city and the collar counties are not losing population -- it's the rest of the state. College towns also seem to be in relatively good shape. In other words: if you're highly educated and live near Chicago or in a university town, you're probably doing OK. Surprise, surprise.

The Incredible Shrinking Illinois | Chicago magazine | Politics & City Life February 2016
Illinois loses more residents in 2016 than any other state - Chicago Tribune

Yup. The EXACT situation is playing out in CT, NY, and PA. Others as well. Illinois' losses are just accelerated. Why I do not know. Maybe CT, NY, and PA have been able to hold onto more of their manufacturing jobs? That seems unlikely though, as none are particularly regarded as business friendly. Illinois has a marginally higher fertility rate than all three, so it can't be births outpacing deaths there at a greater rate than here. Anyone who actually lives here knows crime in Chicago is incredibly concentrated to the neighborhoods seeing population loss. That really only leaves the budget issues, which all three (and a number of red states) also have.

Shedding your working class population is not a good thing, but if people don't have jobs, they relocate. It's alarming that we're seeing the U.S. head full speed ahead towards this sort of dystonian future where wealth is increasingly concentrated in "elite" cities predominately along the coast + Chicago. Income inequality is at record highs, yet those suffering the most elected a "populist" billionaire into office to revert to the status quo that lead us into the Great Recession. He's not bringing back any jobs that have decamped for cheaper markets. He's not going to put a halt to increased automation. This exact situation is going to play out across the country over the next couple of decades and places like Chicago that have adapted to mostly service-based economies will flourish whereas places relying on manufacturing and other low skilled jobs will struggle.

[TBideon]

I'm reluctantly staying due to my current position but will move should my manager allow me to work remotely full-time (which is a possibility in the next few years). To hell with all the racial tensions, cold weather, excessive taxes, flat land, city and state corruptions, and above all else, criminal miscreants and their endless anti-social activities, behaviors, and attitudes. I am sick of it.

Sometimes the grass actually is greener on the other side.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by GoCUBS1

Your REALITY does not reflect mine. Jobs do not pay SIGNIFICANTLY more in FL, and many of the jobs are low skill and seasonal. Also, from the stats I've seen (but maybe you have other data?), "Chicago" is not losing, it is the "state of Illinois" losing low skill manufacturing workers (e.g. downstate and Rockford), populations plummeting in gang/crime filled city neighborhoods, and reduction in Mexican immigrant population growth. The professional/intellectual/high-skilled population centers of IL in Chicago, suburbs, and IL university towns have been expanding in recent years. GOOD.





http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...oreUserAgent=1

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...oreUserAgent=1

She knows. She's just bitter.

Originally Posted by TBideon

I'm reluctantly staying due to my current position but will move should my manager allow me to work remotely full-time (which is a possibility in the next few years). To hell with all the racial tensions, cold weather, excessive taxes, flat land, city and state corruptions, and above all else, criminal miscreants and their endless anti-social activities, behaviors, and attitudes. I am sick of it.

Sometimes the grass actually is greener on the other side.

It's really not though. Everything you're complaining about occurs everywhere. Unless you're living in Englewood, Austin, or one of the few other crime-plagued neighborhoods, you'll most likely never fall victim to or even witness a crime. Can't do anything for you about the topography, but I think you're overestimating just how "mountainous" most of the U.S. is. Even Denver is flat as a pancake. The Rockies are maybe an hour away though. It's more expensive than Chicago at this point though, so scratch that off your list.

This should help you make relocating easier should you choose to do so: https://www.missourieconomy.org/indi...ving/index.stm

If you're looking at Texas, make sure it's outside of metro Dallas, Houston, or Austin. The savings will be $0. Atlanta MAY save you a couple hundred bucks a year, but that's a big maybe at this point. St. Louis seems to be improving. Nashville making some progress as well. Columbus, OH may also be a good bet these days.

[NealIRC]

Originally Posted by TBideon

To hell with all the racial tensions, cold weather, excessive taxes, flat land, city and state corruptions, and above all else, criminal miscreants and their endless anti-social activities, behaviors, and attitudes. I am sick of it.

Ehh, other than cold weather, do these things matter, if you belong to a synagogue? Or for people that belong to a synagogue.