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But here is an example of an undated and unverified passage in Luke:
Luke 2:2-5
This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered. Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David. He went to be registered with Mary, to whom he was engaged and who was expecting a child.
The census under Quirinius occurred as a result of Judea coming under direct Roman rule with the expulsion of Herod's son, Archelaus, who had ruled Judea for ten years after Herod's death.
We can verify the fact and the date from Josephus'
Josephus, Antiquities 18.1-4:
" Quirinius, a Roman senator who had proceeded through all the magistracies to the consulship and a man who was extremely distinguished in other respects, arrived in Syria,dispatched by Caesar to be governor of the nation and to make an assessment of their property. Coponius, a man of equestrian rank, was sent along with him to rule over the Jewswith full authority. Quirinius also visited Judaea, which had been annexed to Syria, in order tomake an assessment of the propertyof the Jews and to liquidate the estate of Archelaus.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 09-10-2010 at 12:41 PM..
Reason: Another instance of City-Data's program additions
Hmmm...those in Josephus are known interpolations...so not worthy of any historical merit.
RESPONSE:
Then please present your evidence that this passage was interpolated. Or is that an assertion without evidence?
[SIZE=4]Josephus, Antiquities Book 20: chapter 9 [/SIZE]
"But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned..."
But here is an example of an undated and unverified passage in Luke:
Luke 2:2-5
This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered. Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David. He went to be registered with Mary, to whom he was engaged and who was expecting a child.
The census under Quirinius occurred as a result of Judea coming under direct Roman rule with the expulsion of Herod's son, Archelaus, who had ruled Judea for ten years after Herod's death.
We can verify the fact and the date from Josephus'
Josephus, Antiquities 18.1-4:
" Quirinius, a Roman senator who had proceeded through all the magistracies to the consulship and a man who was extremely distinguished in other respects, arrived in Syria,dispatched by Caesar to be governor of the nation and to make an assessment of their property. Coponius, a man of equestrian rank, was sent along with him to rule over the Jewswith full authority. Quirinius also visited Judaea, which had been annexed to Syria, in order tomake an assessment of the propertyof the Jews and to liquidate the estate of Archelaus.
Originally Posted by Mike555 >>You obviously don't believe that the Bible is the word of God. You deny what it says. By the Bible's own testimony, God rejects human good. Human good as I have already said, is the basis by which the unbeliever is condemned to the lake of fire. As do many, you reject what is clearly taught in the word of God and substitute your own personal beliefs.<<
RESPONSE:
My friend Ralph wrote a book in which it is claimed that it is the word of God.
He says if you don't believe that it is, you'll be condemned to a sea of fire.
Do you think we should believe him just because he says so?
Your imaginary friend Ralph isn't 40 different people who wrote an integrated message over a period of 1600 years or so and which contains historically proven fulfilled prophecies such as the Babyonian captivity and subsequent restoration of the Jews from the Babylonian captivity in 539 B.C. when the Medes and the Persians attacked Babylon. Or the historically proven fulfilled prophecy of Tyre.
Yes, that's right. I said the prophecy concerning the destruction of Tyre is historically proven to be fulfilled.
Then please present your evidence that this passage was interpolated. Or is that an assertion without evidence?
[SIZE=4]Josephus, Antiquities Book 20: chapter 9 [/SIZE]
"But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned..."
By the time Josephus wrote Antiquities the story of Jesus was well circulated. Josephus has no first hand knowledge of the Jesus character. There is no doubt he would have heard the stories that were circulating. He was just repeating what he had heard.
"Opinion about this passage is mixed. Some scholars believe that it is a later Christian insertion, like the Testimonium Flavianium may be, but of course much less blatantly so. Others believe that the passage may in fact be genuine. No adequate means of deciding the issue exists at this time. However, those who argue for Jesus's non-existence note that Josephus spends much more time discussing John the Baptist and various other supposed Messiahs than he does discussing Jesus. However, while there is some reason to believe that this second passage is a fabrication, there is not enough evidence to definitely conclude this.
On the whole, it seems at least plausible that Josephus made some references to Jesus in the original version of Antiquities of the Jews. However, the extent of these references is very uncertain, and clear evidence of textual corruption does exist. While Josephus may be the best non-Christian source on Jesus, that is not saying much"
Yes, that's right. I said the prophecy concerning the destruction of Tyre is historically proven to be fulfilled.
Why don't you address my previous posts regarding Tyre?
Paraphrasing: 'Though you be looked for you will not be found'
You will be bare rock in the midst of the sea where fishermen spread their nets'
Well sorry dude but Tyre exists today in the same place it has always been. Prophecy failed....dismally.
Also, Isaiah and Jeremiah prophesied that the Medes would take and permanently destroy Babylon. But the Medes were conquered by the Persians, who then went on to peacefully take (and not destroy) Babylon.
No. God's perfect absolute righteousness can't approve of man's relative human righteousness. But humanly speaking, good is good. It just can't measure up to God's standard's.
Your apologetics site is a festival of misinformation and downright lies, particularly the part about Tyre being on the shore/mainland. If Tyre was on the shore, why the hell did Alexander have to build a causeway out into the sea to reach it. The city of Tyre was on an island. Lovely example of 'Lying for Jesus'.
Is the slaughter of children an example of "God's perfect absolute righteousness."?
Moses said to them, "Have you allowed all the women to live? These women here, on Balaam's advice, made the Israelites act treacherously against the LORD in the affair of Peor, so that the plague came among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man by sleeping with him. But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Yes. It is. The Israelites were supposed to have killed everyone. The reason being is that by leaving the enemy alive, Israel would be subject to the idolatry of those people they spared. And they were to be killed as punishment for their idolatry. It was God's purpose to keep Israel free from such influences. The captains of the army disobeyed Moses and allowed some number of women and children to live. Therefore, Moses ordered the male children to be killed and the women who were virgins were allowed to live and kept not for sinful purposes, but for slaves, a custom which was practised in those times with regard to captives.
God is perfectly just and fair in all that He does.
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