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>>When Jesus stood up in the synagogue and read from the scroll the Isaiah 61 prophecy as recorded in Luke 4:18, He stopped after He read the part about proclaiming the favorable year of the Lord because He had just fulfilled the prophecy up to that point. The rest of the prophecy is to be fulfilled at His return. <<
RESPONSE:
Thank you for admitting that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophicies. I believe your original claim was the we know that the bible is inspired because its prophecies were fulfilled.
>>There was no time lag between His resurrection and the beginning of the establishment of those churches<<
Not true. The immediate followers of Jesus remained a sect of orthodox Temple worshipping Jews. Christian churches were only established after the original Jerusalem Christian community was crushed.
You didn't quote my entire statement. I said the following: There was no time lag between His resurrection and the beginning of the establishment of those churches and the spreading of His message sufficent for a legend concerning Jesus to develop.
RESPONSE:
Not true. Jesus was executed about 30 AD. The first gospel was written by Mark in the 70's. Mark had not been an eyewitness but merely recounted legends which had developed over the preceeding 40 years. Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source and wrote in the 80's.
About 60-70 years after the death of Jesus, the writers whom we collectively name "John" wrote the 4th gospel. In this one, Jesus, who had only been the messiah up till then, became a divine person.
Jesus's original followers who had remained a very orthodox sect within Judaism, were subsequently excluded from the Jewish synagogues as apostates.
Jesus Christ is God. The Second Person of the Godhead. He is co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
Wrong, wrong, WRONG!!!
Luke 18: 18-19
Quote:
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Translation: Don't call me "good". God is the only one that is "good"; I am not God.
Luke 18: 20
Quote:
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother
What about that first commandment? Deuteronomy 5: 6-7
Quote:
I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me.
Translation: Anyone other than the God that greeted Moses is a false God. Jesus wasn't even born yet when Moses walked the Earth. Deuteronomy 5: 12
Quote:
Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you.
Translation: The real 7th day of the week is Saturday. Always has been, always will be. Worshiping Christ on Sunday literally breaks two commandments from the God of the bible.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 09-08-2010 at 07:50 AM..
>>When Jesus stood up in the synagogue and read from the scroll the Isaiah 61 prophecy as recorded in Luke 4:18, He stopped after He read the part about proclaiming the favorable year of the Lord because He had just fulfilled the prophecy up to that point. The rest of the prophecy is to be fulfilled at His return. <<
RESPONSE:
Thank you for admitting that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophicies. I believe your original claim was the we know that the bible is inspired because its prophecies were fulfilled.
I guess not in this case, eh?
Don't put words in my mouth.
Here is what I said from post #14.
The following prophecy of Isaiah 61 has both a near term and a long term view. It covers both the first and second advent of Christ, without revealing that the dispensation of the church is to take place between the two comings of Christ.
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, Because the LORD has anointed me To bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives And freedom to prisoners; 2] To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord, And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn. 3] To grant those who mourn in Zion, Giving them a garland instead of ashes, The oil of gladness instesd of mourning, The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting. So they will be called oaks of righteousness, The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified. (The prophecy continues on to the end of the chapter)
When Jesus stood up in the synagogue and read from the scroll the Isaiah 61 prophecy as recorded in Luke 4:18, He stopped after He read the part about proclaiming the favorable year of the Lord because He had just fulfilled the prophecy up to that point. The rest of the prophecy is to be fulfilled at His return.
Luke 4:18 "THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED, 19] TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.''
The Millennial kingdom is to be established upon the Lord's return and that is when He will reign as King.
Are you truly unable to grasp this? I showed that the rest of the prophecy is to be fulfilled at Jesus' second return. There are many prophecies which have been historically fulfilled.
It just goes to show then if one is determined to be a skeptic, no amount of proof will cause him to change his mind.
Last edited by Michael Way; 09-08-2010 at 08:45 AM..
The Bible is not one book. It is 66 books with 40 human authors who for the most part didn't know each other, and each inspired by God the Holy Spirit, written over a period of nearly two thousand years (1600 years or so) and containing an integrated message.
The prophecies of the Old Testament which have been historically fulfilled attest to the divine authorship of the Bible.
Jesus Himself acknowledged the authority of the Old Testament Scriptures. And the fact that immediately after His resurrection, the Apostles had been transformed from cowards into courageous men who endured intense opposition and persecution, and eventually most were martyred, to spread His word and establish churches attest to the reality of Jesus Christ. There was no time lag between His resurrection and the beginning of the establishment of those churches and the spreading of His message sufficent for a legend concerning Jesus to develop. There were many hundreds of people who saw Jesus after He resurrected.
Then there is the fact that the Jews still exist despite intense Satanic opposition and his desire to destroy them, and the fact that they are partially back in the land in a state of unbelief in preparation for the tribulation which will occur after the rapture of the church. When Christ returns at the end of the tribulation, He returns to an already existing nation Israel.
Only the Bible is the word of God. Unless they believed in Jesus Christ for salvation before they died, the authors of the Koran, The book of Mormon, the Vedas, the Pali Tripitaka, the I Ching, the Chun Boo Kyung, etc. etc., are in Hades today awaiting their sentencing to the eternal lake of fire.
Since I cannot rep him I must agree with Mike. The Bible is the inspired word of God and the OT is confirmed by Christ and the Bible has 66 books and 40 authors and not a single mistake or contradiction while the other books are full of mistake and contradictions. The Koran has one author who clearly is selfserving and the same for the book of mormon. There is no other book of God than the Bible.
>>There was no time lag between His resurrection and the beginning of the establishment of those churches<<
Not true. The immediate followers of Jesus remained a sect of orthodox Temple worshipping Jews. Christian churches were only established after the original Jerusalem Christian community was crushed.
You didn't quote my entire statement. I said the following: There was no time lag between His resurrection and the beginning of the establishment of those churches and the spreading of His message sufficent for a legend concerning Jesus to develop.
RESPONSE:
Not true. Jesus was executed about 30 AD. The first gospel was written by Mark in the 70's. Mark had not been an eyewitness but merely recounted legends which had developed over the preceeding 40 years. Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source and wrote in the 80's.
About 60-70 years after the death of Jesus, the writers whom we collectively name "John" wrote the 4th gospel. In this one, Jesus, who had only been the messiah up till then, became a divine person.
Jesus's original followers who had remained a very orthodox sect within Judaism, were subsequently excluded from the Jewish synagogues as apostates.
I'm not talking about when the first Gospel was written. I'm talking about when the church-age began 50 days after the resurrection of Christ and the subsequent spread of Christianity. If Jesus had not been resurrected, there would have been no reason for the Apostles who had been cowardly when Jesus was crucified to have suddenly changed into courageous men who risked death to spread the word as they did. Many people saw and were witnesses to the resurrected Jesus.
No, the individual writers of the Gospels are not collectively called John.
Exact dates can't be given. Approximate dates are as follows.
Matthew wrote his Gospel after Mark and before the destruction of the temple which was in 70 A.D. His Gospel emphasizes Jesus as King.
Mark wrote his Gospel around 64-68 A.D. Mark shows that Jesus came as a servant.
Luke's Gospel was written between 64-70 A.D. Luke also wrote Acts afterwards. Luke presents Jesus as the Son of Man - as man in his essential humanity.
John's Gospel was written about 85-90 A.D. Johns gospel shows Christ's deity - He is the Son of God.
Each Gospel was written to show a different aspect of Jesus.
Skeptics always try to give a late date to the Gospels in an attempt to discredit them.
Last edited by Michael Way; 09-08-2010 at 08:43 AM..
It's depends on your view of things i imagine. Is the bible infalible without any errors? No it is not while it does get some things correct it has a lot of things that never happened in it also. Inspired possibly....but then again it also inspires a lot of negative in us which i am not sure the goddess/god wants out of us.
Skeptics always try to give a late date to the Gospels in an attempt to discredit them.
Actually, "the gospels" has a VERY early date. The death by the cross, three day resurrection, and the December 25th birthday is something that many "sons of God" have in common (ie, Horus of ancient Egypt and Krishna of ancient India just to name a few). Being that all of these other "sons of God" came before Christ, how do we know that Christ was the "real deal"? What makes these "mythical sons of Gods" myths? These "sons of God" performed miracles like healing the sick, walking on water, and surviving a death just like Jesus. In fact, the OT gives reference to these previous "sons of God".
Genesis 6: 1-2
Quote:
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Like I said, even the bible talks about "sons of God" that came before Jesus. Coincidence? I think not!
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 09-08-2010 at 08:51 AM..
Since I cannot rep him I must agree with Mike. The Bible is the inspired word of God and the OT is confirmed by Christ and the Bible has 66 books and 40 authors and not a single mistake or contradiction while the other books are full of mistake and contradictions. The Koran has one author who clearly is selfserving and the same for the book of mormon. There is no other book of God than the Bible.
Thanks Robin! The Bible is the divine absolute norm and standard for truth. It is God's complete message to man perfectly recorded in the original languages of Scripture.
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