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re: "Why can't I? I can choose to believe that the world is flat."
If you really mean that, perhaps you can help. As I’ve stated previously, I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would really like to be able to do that. I don’t think it’s possible, but since you say that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it? What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, "OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ‘x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists or is true?
You say that you can CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without any doubt - that the earth is flat. To demonstrate your ability and technique, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that the earth is flat and not round. Now that that is your new belief, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from one state of belief to the other?
Friendship is a mutual thing. Verna believes that I and most other Christians and all unbelievers are doomed to everlasting torment because of the way that we believe, and she hates and loathes us just as she believes God hates and loathes us because we are sinners, even though she will not admit that she hates and loathes us though she claims that God does.
You have a lot of nerve.
How dare you speak for me and lie about me at the same time. Please, refrain from doing so in the future...I can speak for myself quite well, thank you.
First of all...I believe that those who believe in the UR doctrine are deceived, and they teach others this false gospel as well...which is really, really bad...Secondly, any other "self-proclaimed" Christian, that willfully sins, will not enter into heaven if they in fact die in their sin...Thirdly, I do not believe in everlasting torment...I believe when you die in your sin, your are SOUL DEAD!!!...when are you going to get that into your brain? I do not hate nor do I loath anyone, it is expected of me by God to love mine enemies...and I do...enough to continually proclaim the TRUTH! to your darkened hearts...In great hope that one day it will finally sink in! But only God can give the increase, when He sees that you do want to listen and believe by faith in His truth. God is GOD! I am NOT! Him!...he does loathe a willfull sinner...he does hate workers of iniquity...so much so that He does not love, know, nor does He abide with them...and neither do they know or love or abide with him! It is written!!! SCRIPTURE!!! The Word of God!...not Verna!
That's okay, i believe that we all will be amazed(in a good way) when it is all said and done ... Though some will certainly suffer a sever shock(not in a good way) when judgment and the final verdict is handed down.
I appreciate your kind intentions, and i respect them, but i don't believe they are realistic. Even Christ did not claim to be the friend of the religious leaders of his time who had him murdered.
As far as the fact that God hardened the Israeli's and blinded them to his true nature, you should not be so much amazed at my saying so as i am merely quoting the new testament.
Frankly i am also amazed that you cannot see that the new testament plainly teaches that the nation of Israel was blind to the true nature or God, and that is why they were always coming under the judgment of God and being led away into captivity.
re: "Why can't I? I can choose to believe that the world is flat."
If you really mean that, perhaps you can help. As I’ve stated previously, I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would really like to be able to do that. I don’t think it’s possible, but since you say that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it? What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, "OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ‘x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists or is true?
You say that you can CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without any doubt - that the earth is flat. To demonstrate your ability and technique, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that the earth is flat and not round. Now that that is your new belief, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from one state of belief to the other?
If I were to do so, I would simply have to believe previous indications to the contrary were false, and that persons who claimed to have specific knowledge of the converse were intentionally and willfully lying about it.
I also believe in the inherent goodness of mankind, although every personal experience I've had with it indicated otherwise. Or, here's another, I believe in extraterrestrial life. I have no proof of these beliefs, I've never seen an alien ship, but I certainly believe it is possible.
How dare you speak for me and lie about me at the same time. Please, refrain from doing so in the future...I can speak for myself quite well, thank you.
First of all...I believe that those who believe in the UR doctrine are deceived, and they teach others this false gospel as well...which is really, really bad...Secondly, any other "self-proclaimed" Christian, that willfully sins, will not enter into heaven if they in fact die in their sin...Thirdly, I do not believe in everlasting torment...I believe when you die in your sin, your are SOUL DEAD!!!...when are you going to get that into your brain? I do not hate nor do I loath anyone, it is expected of me by God to love mine enemies...and I do...enough to continually proclaim the TRUTH! to your darkened hearts...In great hope that one day it will finally sink in! But only God can give the increase, when He sees that you do want to listen and believe by faith in His truth. God is GOD! I am NOT! Him!...he does loathe a willfull sinner...he does hate workers of iniquity...so much so that He does not love, know, nor does He abide with them...and neither do they know or love or abide with him! It is written!!! SCRIPTURE!!! The Word of God!...not Verna!
God Bless,
Verna.
I should have said that she believes that most Christians and all unbelievers are doomed to everlasting "soul death". I get the Conditional Immortality crowd and the Eternal Torment crowd mixed up sometimes ...
Verna believes and teaches that God hates all sinners, yet she believes he commands her to love them. She is saying God commands us to love all people though he himself hates most people who will ever live on planet earth ...
Hypocrisy and double standards ...
Mat 5:44-48
But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(It is important to realize that the word translated as perfect in the last verse of the passage above is "teleios" which literally means complete. And in the context of the passage of scriptures above, it is referring to the complete love of God for all people.)
Now Verna will most likely jump to the very end of the passage i quoted above and take the last verse out of context and say that it means we must be perfect in that we must never sin.
Of course that is not the context of the passage at all, the subject of the passage above is not sin, it is love. The last verse is saying we should be perfect in love, as our father in heaven is perfect in love, as he loves his enemies(the unrighteous and unbelieving) even as he loves those who believe in him. And so he is Kind to the evil and unthankful ...
As it is written ...
Luk 6:35
But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again, and your reward will be great, and ye shall be sons of the Highest, because He is kind unto the ungracious and evil;
Why is God Kind to the unthankful and the evil? Is it because he hates them and loathes them? Not at all ... It is because he does love them and he proved his love to us while were still sinners(in bondage to sin and unbelief) ...
Rom 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
If God only loved those who love him, and if God in truth hates and loathes not only those who do not love him, but also everyone who sins including Christians who love him but fall in times of weakness, then by Christs own words God is no better than a sinner himself ...
Luk 6:32
If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them.
Is God like a sinner who only loves those who love him? Or is God better than a sinner, in that he loves even his enemies?
It is written ...
1Jo 4:19
We love him(God) because he first loved us.
So according to the new testament God loved us before we ever loved him, but Verna and those who believe and teach the ways she does teach another gospel, they teach that We must first love God before he will love us ...
Here is what i have to say to Verna and all others who believe and teach the way that she does ...
2Cr 12:9
But he(God) said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.
Though i am weak in my sinful flesh, God is strong in his perfect grace and love manifested and demonstrated in the work of Christ on the cross ...
Peace ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 09-28-2010 at 12:52 PM..
re: "If I were to do so, I would simply have to believe previous indications to the contrary were false, and that persons who claimed to have specific knowledge of the converse were intentionally and willfully lying about it."
There has only been ONE person that was totally without sin and that was Jesus Christ.
I find the above statement to be false based on what is taught by Christianity regarding that we are all born in the sin of Adam. I'm curious how do Christians get around that fact that Jesus was born of Mary, a sinner??? If Jesus was born of a sinner (which Mary definitely was based on Christian teaching)...then he is also a sinner and could not possibly be born sinless...for he would also carry the sin of Adam through his mother.
My other examples were the belief in the inherent goodness of man, and the possibility of extraterrestrial life.
I am aware that you said that you could not do it, but I thought that after I explained how to do so, that you might be able to do it, once you understood the mechanics.
I wasn't born knowing how to drive--I had to learn the mechanics of how to do so.
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