Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
God will and does hold everyones sins against them, the believers have Jesus as their mediator and the nonbelievers have nothing. I do not wish 1 second of torment on anyone but justice requires payment, either Jesus or the sinner will be the payment. What we may think are petty little sins God sees as a cancer. He offers the cure for this cancer, will you accept or reject His cure? Simple yet many make it complicated while claiming to simplify it.
And I thank you for ther third time for proving my point.
Finn Jarber you asked me to show you where you said this. I obliged,see my last post to you. So what point am I proving of yours ?. That you actually believe what you asked me to point out that you were in denial of saying
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Please show the post where I saidthe message is only for the believer.
I never said it, did I? No one did. You love to invent arguments to argue against, but please don't claim I made the arguments, when everyone knows I didn't. This is exactly what I mean when I said you invent new stuff when the old stuff no longer salvageable.
Your Spin & Twist dance never ends.
I spin and twist nothing, you did say the people referred to were believers, Not believers and unbelievers , just believers .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
For the sake of clarity, lets make sure people understand the author is talking about believers when he says "people"
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[a] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them
My goodness. For the last and final time, this is the MINISTRY of reconciliation:
the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them
Then, Paul makes a point to say BE reconciled. Be is an action verb indicating man must take action to accept the OFFER of reconciliation. Reconciliation isnt complete without man's acceptance.
V 20 We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.
The Gospel is not really an "offer" as you (as well as Finn and Mike555, woops! I said it again) like to put it, such as what a seller might offer on eBay, even if you were offering it for free. But rather the Gospel is a proclamation of truth, a heralding of Good News, to be believed. Not in-order to make it true or so that it can be true, but rather because it is true, and it is so on it's own merits.
What you're trying to "offer" sinners, and what Paul is proclaiming to the sinner, comes from a fundamentally different perspective of what the Gospel is.
Your gospel is really about ifs and possibilities, chances and offers. That is really not what the Gospel is.
The Gospel is an accomplished truth, an objective fact that is to be believed. When we receive that truth (through faith) it brings with it the fruits of peace, love, joy, etc., in the Holy Spirit.
Paul was not in the business of selling or offering truth (such as you, Finn and Mike555 {darn I did it again} do). Paul was rather proclaiming it to be the truth, through the Gospel.
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 11-06-2011 at 03:50 PM..
Finn Jarber you asked me to show you where you said this. I obliged,see my last post to you. So what point am I proving of yours ?. That you actually believe what you asked me to point out that you were in denial of saying
LOL You are proving the point that you are quick to invent a new argument as soon as you realize the original one is indefensible.
Quote:
I spin and twist nothing, you did say the people referred to were believers, Not believers and unbelievers , just believers .
Referred to? The discussion was never about who the message was targeted for, or about 'ambassadors', which is exactly what I mean by you modifying the argument when you lose the original one.
pcamp said: "Believe that God is not holding your sin against you, you will enter into the life changing knowledge of the Salvation of God!"
Oh good. I'm so relieved!
But pardon my ignorance: has the bible essentially made living without sin, by and large, an impossibility just so that all MUST be judged in order to gain entrance to heaven, and have access to the oft-promised perfect Salvation? I mean, is it otherwise impossible, just by living an ethical and morally upstanding life, as I have, to be sin-free for all rational intents and purposes? (PS: I don't let others define my sins. That's just silly & naive, because they can then make up whatever they chose!)
In other words, has the church and it's bible-book made living properly impossible?
And thus they capture and force everyone all to fearfully supplicate before the church's iconic God?
he takes on our karma one time, but remember-- like the gal saved from a stoning for adultery, its one shot deal-- next time u get stoned.
christ is not a passport to no penalty sin. to think that sin has no penalty is a grave error and the one most americans live 24/7. the eternal 2nd chance, actions w/o consequences.
LOL You are proving the point that you are quick to invent a new argument as soon as you realize the original one is indefensible.
Referred to? The discussion was never about who the message was targeted for, or about 'ambassadors', which is exactly what I mean by you modifying the argument when you lose the original one.
Yes it was. In the OP I clearly Was an ambassador of the good news that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself,not counting the sin of the people against them, and because you hate the thought of this, you said the beneficiary of the message was the believer not the unbeliever
I have also said the same thing throughout this thread. God unlike the fundamentalist is not holding the sin of the world against.
We the ambassadors of this message are to take it to those who are not reconciled which amazingly you believe is the believer who is already reconciled and not unbeliever who needs to be reconciled.
Trust me, the believers are the church. I don't care what your universalist handlers have told you, but what I am telling you is the truth.
You are one person I would not trust. Believe me. Yes, those who believe the Gospel are identified as being within the church. However, not everyone within the church believes the Gospel. Your own claim to be in the "church", and yet not believe the Gospel, is proof.
And no, no "universalist handlers" (I'm not sure even what that is) has told me anything to believe Finn.
How can you possibly tell anyone what the truth is Finn, when you yourself do not know or believe it?
Your own claim to be in the "church", and yet not believe the Gospel, is proof.
How can you possibly tell anyone what the truth is Finn, when you yourself do not know or believe it?
First I thought you were just being arrogant, but you actually do think you are the judge on who believes and who doesn't. Unreal.......
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
