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Originally Posted by legoman
When you say "the unbeliever will be designed for residence in the lake of fire away" - when you write this, what are you thinking the lake of fire actually is?
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The Bible does not go into great detail concerning the nature of the lake of fire. What it does say is that it was designed for the devil and his angels, but that all men who die never having trusted in Christ for eternal salvation will also spend the eternal future there.
Matthew 25:41,46a;
Revelation 20:10-15
It will be a place of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power
(2 Thess. 1:9). I'll explain that in more detail in the next section below. But the word destruction is a translation of the Greek word
'olethros' which is from
'ollymi' and does not mean cessation of existence, or extinction, but means to be in a state of ruination >>
Strong's Greek: 3639. So eternal destruction means eternal ruination.
Those who are in the lake of fire will be in disgrace and everlasting contempt
(Daniel 12:2).
It is a place where those who are there will be tormented with fire and brimstone
(Rev. 14:10 and Rev. 20:10).
Those in the lake of fire will be in disgrace and everlasting contempt, they will be in a lost state of ruination, and they will be eternally tormented.
The demons know that they will be tormented (basanizó; Active voice) in that place as stated by a demon in
Matthew 8:29.
basanizó
1. properly, to test (metals) by the touchstone.
2. to question by applying torture.
3. to torture (2 Macc. 7:13); hence,
4. universally, to vex with grievous pains (of body or mind), to torment: τινα, Matthew 8:29; Mark 5:7; Luke 8:28; 2 Peter 2:8; Revelation 11:10; passively, Matthew 8:6; Revelation 9:5; Revelation 20:10; of the pains of childbirth, Revelation 12:2 (cf. Anthol. 2, p. 205, Jacobs edition); with ἐν and the dative of the material in which one is tormented, Revelation 14:10.
5. Passive to be harassed, distressed; of those who at sea are struggling with a head wind, Mark 6:48; of a ship tossed by the waves, Matthew 14:24. (In Greek writings from Herodotus down. Often in O. T. Apocrypha.)
Strong's Greek: 928.
But that does
not mean, that they will have their skin flayed off them again and again, or have their eyes eaten out by vultures, or have to roll a heavy stone uphill for all eternity, or be boiled in oil, or be forced to watch endless reruns of the Oprah Show, or things like that.
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Also, in Rev 14 it says those in the lake of fire ("fire and brimstone") are tormented in the presence of the lamb, so it doesn't seem they are away from the presence of the Lord.
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Rev. 14:10 does not contradict
2 Thess. 1:9.
Rev. 14:10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
2 Thess. 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
To be separated from God refers to not having a relationship with God. When Adam sinned he immediately died spiritually . That is, although he was still physically alive, his relationship with God was broken. He came under judgment. And thereafter, everyone who is born is born spiritually dead, under condemnation, and without any relationship with God. Everyone is separated from God until and unless they come to Jesus Christ for eternal life. And so the second death in the lake of fire is spiritual death perpetuated forever. No one in the lake of fire will have any relationship with God.
However, God is omnipresent. He is everywhere present. The torment in the lake of fire will be overseen by Jesus and administered by the angels. There will be a group of angels who will stand guard and see that the punishment is carried out forever.
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And you are saying God purposely designs bodies for these people so they will be sustained and tormented forever. Why is this good and just?
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Everyone lives forever. There is no choice in the matter.
Matthew 10:28 shows that the soul survives the death of the body. The only choice is where you will spend the eternal future. And there are only two options. In the presence of God, or eternally separated from God.
But the last enemy to be destroyed is death. Not spiritual death, and not the second death, but physical death. Everyone is going to be resurrected and therefore go through eternity body and soul. The nature of the unbelievers resurrected body is not one of glory, but is one designed to inhabit the lake of fire which is a place of torment, ruination and disgrace.
And so, yes. Just as God will give the believer a glorious resurrected body fitting for those who will live in His presence, in relationship with Him forever, so also will God give the unbeliever a resurrected body which is fitting for those who are separated from Him forever.
Why is it just? Because God gives those who want nothing to do with Him, their choice. One of the reasons that God created man was to resolve the angelic conflict. Satan used his volition to rebell against God. So God created man lower than the angels, but with the same volition that the angels had. The issue being that if any member of the human race used his volition to come to God in response to what God has revealed about Himself, then the angels who rebelled should have known better and were without excuse. They chose to rebell against God and so they will be eternally separated from God. Since man was created to resolve the issue of the angelic conflict, those members of the human race who want nothing to do with God will share the same punishment as the fallen angels.
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