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"I beheld Satan as lightning falling out of heaven. Lo! I have given you authority to be treading upon serpents and scorpions
and on the entire power which is of the enemy, and nothing will be injuring you under any circumstances."
"This has no reference to the so-called "fall" of Satan in the past, of which the Scriptures know nothing, but has an immediate and particular application to Satan's actions in response to the distress among his demon minions under the power of Christ's name in the ministry of the seventy-two disciples. He dashes like lightning out of heaven to earth to render them aid. The expression, "falling," has no reference here to "casting out" Satan, but is often used of the descent of some celestial being from heaven, so swift as to be spoken of "as lightning" or a "star falling." Note the following Scripture:
"And the fifth messenger trumpets. And I perceived a star falling out of heaven into the earth. And to him was given the key of the well of the abyss" (Rev.9:1,2).
"SATAN TO BE CAST OUT
"About the middle of the "one seven," wherein the covenant is empowered with many of Daniel's people (Dan.9:27), corresponding to the time when the fifth seal is broken in the Revelation (6:9), Satan and his host of wicked forces among the celestials are ejected out of their place in heaven and cast down to the earth.
"And a battle occurred in heaven. Michael and his messengers battle with the dragon, and the dragon battles, and its messengers. And they are not strong enough for him, neither was their place still found in heaven.
"And the great dragon was cast down, who is the ancient serpent called Slanderer and Satan, who is deceiving the whole inhabited earth. It was cast into the earth, and its messengers were cast with it.
"And I hear a loud voice in heaven saying: `Now came the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, seeing that the accuser of our brethren was cast down, who was accusing them before our God day and night. And they conquer him through the blood of the Lambkin, and because of the word of their testimony, and they love not their soul unto death. Therefore, make merry, O heavens, and those tabernacling in them! Woe to the land and the sea, seeing that the Slanderer descended to you having great fury, being aware that the season he has is brief'" (Rev.12:7-12).
"A comparison of Daniel 7:25; 9:27; Revelation 12:6; 13:2-5, reveals that the "brief season" which is allotted to Satan after his expulsion from heaven is the last half of the "one seven" of Daniel's prophecy, a period of three and a half years, forty-two months, or twelve hundred and sixty days." (A.E. Knoch, Unsearchable Riches, vol.21)
Quote:
"This has no reference to the so-called "fall" of Satan in the past, of which the Scriptures know nothing, but has an immediate and particular application to Satan's actions in response to the distress among his demon minions under the power of Christ's name in the ministry of the seventy-two disciples. He dashes like lightning out of heaven to earth to render them aid. The expression, "falling," has no reference here to "casting out" Satan, but is often used of the descent of some celestial being from heaven, so swift as to be spoken of "as lightning" or a "star falling." Note the following Scripture:
There is nothing in scripture that supports anything about satan dashing like lightning in distress to aid his demons.
Please forgive my ignorance if there is a simple answer to my questions, but I am still learning. I have read both this thread along with several others such as "The Lucifer Myth"
I guess my question is that if was Lucifer not a corrupted Angel who later on became Satan and that this was just a mistranslation, then who is "Satan"? Iv tried to discover this on my own but can never find a definitive answer. So I figured Id ask one of the people who contend that they were not the same person. Iv read several places that his origin is hazy and that he was just another created being like all the angels but he was specifically created as an adversary to test our faith and corrupt us.
Or is it the belief of you guys that that he was some sort of perfect angel, but his name was not Lucifer and his origin does not directly follow what people preach from the KJV of Isaiah I understand what was said about all the mistranslations and how "Lucifer" came to be in the bible, but I just don't understand who Satan was if he was not an angel like you guys claim.
"Isaiah's description of the King of Babylon in the yet future day of Israel's restoration, is also taken as referring to Satan's fall in the past (Isa.14:3-20):
How art thou fallen from heaven,
O, Lucifer, son of the morning!
"As this is still future, it can hardly refer to Satan's primeval "fall." At that time Satan will have been literally cast out from heaven (Rev.12:9, compare Luke 10:18). But these facts give us no license to identify the two. There will be a king of Babylon who will arrogate divine horrors to himself and who will lord it over the kings of the nations, and who will shake kingdoms. Yet he is a man (Isa.14:16), and Satan is not a man.
"Moreover, an examination of the Hebrew text, will convince any one that the evidence for the title "Lucifer" is exceedingly slight. It is precisely the same word as the translators rendered "howl" in Zech.11:2. In the feminine it occurs again in this very chapter, at the beginning of verse 31. In slightly different forms it is found in Isaiah ten times, and it is always rendered howl (13:6; 15:2,3; 16:7,7; 23:1,6,14; 52:5; 65:14). There is no valid reason why Isaiah 14:12 should not be rendered, "Howl!" instead of "Lucifer." This name is a human invention, and should have no place in the Scriptures.
"Are not these futile efforts to find a foundation for the primeval perfection of the devil a tacit admission that no actual evidence exists? More than that, are they not desperate devices to disprove the clear, unequivocal statements that the Slanderer is sinning from the beginning (1 John 3:8), was a man-killer from the beginning (John 8:44), and is not only a liar, but the father of it?" (A.E. Knoch, Unsearchable Riches vol.15).
Please forgive my ignorance if there is a simple answer to my questions, but I am still learning. I have read both this thread along with several others such as "The Lucifer Myth"
I guess my question is that if was Lucifer not a corrupted Angel who later on became Satan and that this was just a mistranslation, then who is "Satan"? Iv tried to discover this on my own but can never find a definitive answer. So I figured Id ask one of the people who contend that they were not the same person. Iv read several places that his origin is hazy and that he was just another created being like all the angels but he was specifically created as an adversary to test our faith and corrupt us.
Or is it the belief of you guys that that he was some sort of perfect angel, but his name was not Lucifer and his origin does not directly follow what people preach from the KJV of Isaiah I understand what was said about all the mistranslations and how "Lucifer" came to be in the bible, but I just don't understand who Satan was if he was not an angel like you guys claim.
Wes, the bible says satan was a liar and murderer from the BEGINNING. He was made perfect for God`s purpose,which was to be his adversary. It is the only way we could know and appreciate the love and mercy of God. Think about it. How could you appreciate or understand what light is if you never understood darkness? How much could you appreciate warmth if you didn`t know about being cold. This world is a world of contrasts. That`s how we learn. That`s how we UNDERSTAND. The tree of knowledge contained both good AND evil. That`s how we obtained knowledge. Hence the tree of knowledge. Man had to know both or he would just be a puppet. God wants sons and daughters,wes. The whole idea of satan the way the church has been teaching it the last 1500 years, is all wrong. They don`t understand the plan of God. If satan was pefect he never would have turned himself into something else. Obviously that teaching is false. Satan cannot thwart God`s will or change himself into something God did not intend. He cannot or did not take God by surprise. The lamb was slain form the foundation of the world. Everything was preordained by God...EVERYTHING. That is why he is God. He controls his creation. He is not running a damage control center because satan wrecked God`s plan. Everything was created by and for God and his purposes.
Wes, the bible says satan was a liar and murderer from the BEGINNING. He was made perfect for God`s purpose,which was to be his adversary. It is the only way we could know and appreciate the love and mercy of God. Think about it. How could you appreciate or understand what light is if you never understood darkness? How much could you appreciate warmth if you didn`t know about being cold. This world is a world of contrasts. That`s how we learn. That`s how we UNDERSTAND. The tree of knowledge contained both good AND evil. That`s how we obtained knowledge. Hence the tree of knowledge. Man had to know both or he would just be a puppet. God wants sons and daughters,wes. The whole idea of satan the way the church has been teaching it the last 1500 years, is all wrong. They don`t understand the plan of God. If satan was pefect he never would have turned himself into something else. Obviously that teaching is false. Satan cannot thwart God`s will or change himself into something God did not intend. He cannot or did not take God by surprise. The lamb was slain form the foundation of the world. Everything was preordained by God...EVERYTHING. That is why he is God. He controls his creation. He is not running a damage control center because satan wrecked God`s plan. Everything was created by and for God and his purposes.
Wes, the bible says satan was a liar and murderer from the BEGINNING. He was made perfect for God`s purpose,which was to be his adversary. It is the only way we could know and appreciate the love and mercy of God. Think about it. How could you appreciate or understand what light is if you never understood darkness? How much could you appreciate warmth if you didn`t know about being cold. This world is a world of contrasts. That`s how we learn. That`s how we UNDERSTAND. The tree of knowledge contained both good AND evil. That`s how we obtained knowledge. Hence the tree of knowledge. Man had to know both or he would just be a puppet. God wants sons and daughters,wes. The whole idea of satan the way the church has been teaching it the last 1500 years, is all wrong. They don`t understand the plan of God. If satan was pefect he never would have turned himself into something else. Obviously that teaching is false. Satan cannot thwart God`s will or change himself into something God did not intend. He cannot or did not take God by surprise. The lamb was slain form the foundation of the world. Everything was preordained by God...EVERYTHING. That is why he is God. He controls his creation. He is not running a damage control center because satan wrecked God`s plan. Everything was created by and for God and his purposes.
Interesting read & I appreciate your response. I tend to accept this view more than the others iv read or been taught.
The answer is yes. When Lucifer became jealous over the redemption of man by Jesus plus learning that mans destiny was to become greater than Angels he became jealous and rebelled taking with him many other Angels. Lucifer and these other Angels made war with God. This is when God renamed Lucifer to Satan. Many of the fallen Angels became beings of flesh and procreated with the Daughters of man. The books of Enoch not canonized due to the powers that be at the time. There are many references to this book in other ancient writings. One must also read some books by Zechariah Sitchin.
A great many of today's teachings about God has been bastardized. Such as no where in scripture is there any reference to praying to the mother Mary. False doctrine!
Many other churches have adopted FALSE doctrine.
Regardless we are in the last days the 6th seal has almost run it's course. The next will be destruction on such a massive scale that has not been seen on earth since the flood.
Beware I suspect Obama as being the 2nd beast who will cause people to worship the 1st beast. Bringing about the economic crash which he pretty much just insured will happen. The house of representatives just passed a bill introducing a national drivers license a precursor to when the economy of the world falls to the chip being introduced into the hand or the forehead for the purpose of buying and selling of goods. Anyone without this will be considered a non person and their property confiscated. And will be hunted down with bounties put upon them. It is the "MARK OF THE BEAST"
I was speaking with another driver about 6 years ago he picked up a load of these 60,000,000 of them and delivered them to a facility ( was supposed to be a army national guard station ) near San Diego,CA. About 20 minutes before he arrived he was called and diverted to another facility. This facility had high security guards and the serpentine wire was canted inward (to keep people in) (fema death camp?). Those who refuse to be chipped will be KILLED! This time is fast approaching. Some preachers will tell you to obey the law as it says to do in the bible. This is also false doctrine. For it contradicts what God tells you to do which is do not take the mark. However some will take the mark only to help those who do not, these people will be blessed and forgiven.
Last edited by Cerberusxp; 05-25-2009 at 09:13 PM..
satan lost his position in heaven like lightning when he rebelled against the Lord God.
For another look at a description of satan read Ezekiel 28:11-19.
satan still has access to the throne room although he has lost his position in heaven forever. [Job 1 & 2, Revelation 12 :7-12]
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Is lucifer Satan?
