Is Lucifer Satan? (tradition, women, church, Messiah)
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The KJV followed Jerome's lead from the Vulgate - an early-5th-century translation of the Bible into Latin from Greek (note: NOT from the original Hebrew). In Jerome's translation - "Lucifer" occurs in Isaiah 14:12-14 as a translation of the Greek word heosphorus ("dawn-bearer"), an epithet of Venus. The actual Hebrew text says הילל בן שחר (heilel ben-schahar), meaning "Helel son of Shahar."
Helel was a Babylonian / Canaanite god who was the son of another Babylonian / Canaanite god named Shahar.
Helel was the god of the morning star and his father was Shahar, god of the dawn. Some translations of Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning!" American Standard Version translating Hebrew Helel as "day-star" and the Hebrew word Ben as son and the Hebrew word Shahar as "of the morning."
In Isaiah, this title is specifically used, in a prophetic vision, referring the king of Babylon's pride and to illustrate his eventual fate by referencing Babylon's own mythological accounts of the planet Venus' fall from grace from among the gods.
Consider what these verses are actually saying:
Ezek 28:2 "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, `This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "`In the pride of your heart you say, "I am a god; I sit on the throne of a god in the heart of the seas." But you are a man and not a god, though you think you are as wise as a god.
The problem some people have when it comes verses like these is that they have trouble distinguishing poetic language from literal language. When they see something like:
Ezek 28:14-15 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
They jump from the subject previously defined (that being Tyre) to a literalistic definition of a guardian cherub. They think the answer must be "It's Satan". But then the literalistic approach falls apart in the next verse:
Ezek 28:16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.
It no longer works to say that Satan was expelled from heaven because of his widespread trade and violence. In context it is impossible to make these verses refer to Satan. There are no Biblical statements which identify Satan as a guardian cherub, that is only a result of the reader inserting their preconceived ideas into the verse.
The chapters around the references used by those who support the Lucifer myth (in both Isaiah and Ezekiel) are prophecies dealing with other nations. Many with the same kind of poetic language. For instance:
Ezek 31:2-9 "Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and to his hordes: "'Who can be compared with you in majesty? 3 Consider Assyria, once a cedar in Lebanon, with beautiful branches overshadowing the forest; it towered on high, its top above the thick foliage...8 The cedars in the garden of God could not rival it, nor could the pine trees equal its boughs, nor could the plane trees compare with its branches-- no tree in the garden of God could match its beauty. 9 I made it beautiful with abundant branches, the envy of all the trees of Eden in the garden of God. (NIV)
Now maybe one could read these verses and say that again we have a reference to Satan. But that kind of creative exegesis would just lead to other problems - such as who are those which envy the mighty tree in Eden.
Now when the above information is presented someone may say "yes the prophecy is about Babylon or Tyre but it is also about the power which is behind their kingdoms, and that is Satan". But should we ignore all we know about Biblical interpretation so that we can keep a myth about Lucifer that no one prior to the second century had any idea of? A myth which no New Testament author even vaguely referred too?
Some supporters of the Lucifer myth point these verses in Isaiah 14:
You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." (NIV)
It is suggested that this is referencing Satan since these ambitions clearly exceed the reach of any human ruler. But of course - they exceed the reach of Satan also. Besides, delusions of grandeur are not uncommon among earthly rulers. We must remember that these and other verses are filled with poetic language.
I'm willing to be proved incorrect, but the carnal mind resembles everything we accuse Satan of.
(I believe that God uses everything to drive us to Him, including our failures. He's good at what He does - really good.)
It's easier to make up a mythical character and call it satan and blame all the bad things that happen on him than to actually look inside ourselves and admit that we all have a little satan inside of us and that the evil originates in us.
It's easier to make up a mythical character and call it satan and blame all the bad things that happen on him than to actually look inside ourselves and admit that we all have a little satan inside of us and that the evil originates in us.
It is my thinking that human beings, because our Heavenly Parent gave us the freedom to choose for ourselves and while on earth a carnal environment filled with opposites from among which to make choices, that each of us is capable of by the choices we make, becoming pretty much as evil as Satan, or as good as God. In that way, I agree that we "have a little satan inside of us."
But in my beliefs Satan is a very real person, the same spirit brother of ours who rebelled against Heavenly Father's plan of salvation in the beginning and together with one third of our spirit brothers and sisters who followed him was cast down to this earth where they provide the temptations/opposition necessary for us to have opportunities to make free choices.
"And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son, And was called Perdition for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning. And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning! And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ— Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about." D&C 76: 25-29
It is my thinking that human beings, because our Heavenly Parent gave us the freedom to choose for ourselves and while on earth a carnal environment filled with opposites from among which to make choices, that each of us is capable of by the choices we make, becoming pretty much as evil as Satan, or as good as God. In that way, I agree that we "have a little satan inside of us."
But in my beliefs Satan is a very real person, the same spirit brother of ours who rebelled against Heavenly Father's plan of salvation in the beginning and together with one third of our spirit brothers and sisters who followed him was cast down to this earth where they provide the temptations/opposition necessary for us to have opportunities to make free choices.
"And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son, And was called Perdition for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning. And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning! And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ— Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about." D&C 76: 25-29
<LI class=searchitem>Job 2: 1-4, 6-7
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
2 And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
3 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
4 And Satan answered the Lord, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
• • •
6 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
7 ¶ So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
<LI class=searchitem>Job 1: 6-9, 12
6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
• • •
12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
<LI class=searchitem>Rev. 2: 9, 13, 24
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
• • •
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
• • •
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
<LI class=searchitem>Mark 3: 23, 26
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
• • •
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
<LI class=searchitem>Zech. 3: 1-2
1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
<LI class=searchitem>Matt. 12: 26
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
<LI class=searchitem>Luke 22: 3, 31
3 ¶ Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
• • •
31 ¶ And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
<LI class=searchitem>Rev. 20: 2, 7
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
• • •
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
<LI class=searchitem>1 Chr. 21: 1
1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
<LI class=searchitem>Ps. 109: 6
6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
<LI class=searchitem>Matt. 4: 10
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
<LI class=searchitem>Matt. 16: 23
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
<LI class=searchitem>Mark 1: 13
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
<LI class=searchitem>Mark 4: 15
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
<LI class=searchitem>Mark 8: 33
33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
<LI class=searchitem>Luke 4: 8
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
<LI class=searchitem>Luke 10: 18
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
<LI class=searchitem>Luke 11: 18
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
<LI class=searchitem>Luke 13: 16
16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
<LI class=searchitem>John 13: 27
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
<LI class=searchitem>Acts 5: 3
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
<LI class=searchitem>Acts 26: 18
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
<LI class=searchitem>Rom. 16: 20
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
<LI class=searchitem>1 Cor. 5: 5
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
<LI class=searchitem>1 Cor. 7: 5
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
<LI class=searchitem>2 Cor. 2: 11
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
<LI class=searchitem>2 Cor. 11: 14
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
<LI class=searchitem>2 Cor. 12: 7
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
<LI class=searchitem>1 Thes. 2: 18
18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
<LI class=searchitem>2 Thes. 2: 9
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
<LI class=searchitem>1 Tim. 1: 20
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
<LI class=searchitem>1 Tim. 5: 15
15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
<LI class=searchitem>Rev. 3: 9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Rev. 12: 9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Isa. 14: 12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Last edited by justamere10; 01-05-2010 at 08:28 AM..
Originally Posted by mogagabess
file:///C:/Users/Scott/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif (broken link) you are ignorant you usa people, even you who go to church. theologians have lied to you.
satan was never an angel leading worship in heaven, NEVER!! He was a devil, murderer FROM the BEGINNING, read John 8:44. Jesus is GOD and it is GOD who said said satan began a devil and murderer from the BEGINNING. Oh! by the way God created satan a serpent, devil. Read Gen 3:1
He was never an ark angel in heaven protecting the throne (heaven of GOD), he was never in charge. Lucifer means 'heylel', morning star, and satan has never been a morning star. JESUS is the morning star according to Revelation 22:16. When did satan become a morning star because Jesus was and is the morning star 'heyle' from the BEGINNING and he is the END monring star.
you are liars, children of satan, you are blind to the truth, antiChrists, you say things against JESUS the CHRIST.
From Prophet S.Stephen Mogagabe (South Africa)
Not been here in months yet someone sent me this 5 times in my mail, seems soneone want my opionion on this matter.
Before you read this let me warn you that there are some strange things written therein that most will likely reject, so all I ask of the reader is that they take what I put forth here before the Lord and ask Him concerning it.
Genesis 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Thus the heavens and the earth were created in the BEGINNING
And the DEVIL sinneth from the beginning.
1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The word WAS here is also translated BECAME so verse two can be read “And the earth BECAME without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters“.
Now as Is.45:18 say that God did NOT create the earth in VAIN which is the same Hebrew words as WITHOUT FORM something must have happened between verse 1 & 2 that caused the earth to be WITHOUT FORM.
What happened?
According to 2Pet.3:5-7 the first heaven and the earth was overflowed with water.
2 Peter 3:5-7
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Now some might argue that this is speaking of the flood in the days of Noah when the earth was flooded. And upon first glance it does look like that. But is that a proper understanding?
Did the flood in Noah’s day overflow both heaven and earth (the WORLD)?
World here is kosmos and Kosmos is in reference to the whole universe, the HEAVENS and the EARTH.
So what Peter is saying is that the overflow of water covered both the HEAVEN and the EARTH.
Yet in the days of Noah only the EARTH was overflowed with water.
Therefore Peter must be talking about some other overflow of water, and the only other time it speaks of an overflow of water is in Gen.1
Now remember Peter says the HEAVEN and the EARTH ( kosmos ) was overflowed with water.
So lets go back to Gen.1:6-10 and see if the HEAVEN and the EARTH (kosmos ) was overflowed with water.
We read
Genesis 1:6-10
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
According to these scriptures the waters overflowed both the HEAVEN and the EARTH, this is the only time in scripture that God had to separate the water in HEAVEN, nothing like this occurred in the days of Noah, thus Peter was speaking about a flood far greater then that of the flood of Noah.
Another point that backs the flood spoken of in Peter is NOT in reference to the flood in Noah’s day but is in reference to a flood that was hidden in secret from man is that Peter says the people were ignorant or unaware of this flood.
Everyone has heard about the flood in Noah’s day no one is ignorant of it.
From Strong’s
Ignorant
2990 lanthano { lan-than’-o}
a prolonged form of a primitive verb, which is used only as an alt. in certain tenses;; v
AV - be hid 3, be ignorant of 2, unawares 1; 6
GK - 3291 { lanqavnw }
1) to be hidden, to be hidden from one, secretly, unawares, without knowing
So why was the HEAVEN and the EARTH overflowed with water?
According to Peter the flood of Noah’s day was a figure of the baptism that saves us. 1Peter 20-21
Now as the flood waters of Noah’s day which only covered the earth is a figure of baptism unto salvation for man , what then can be said of the flood of the HEAVENS?
Does this not tell us that all those in the HEAVENS also have need of the baptism that saves?
According to Job the HEAVENS are not clean in His sight, does this then not imply that those in the HEAVENS have need of the baptism unto salvation? Sure it does, for the writer of Hebrews states that the HEAVENLY things are purified by a better sacrifice.
Job 15:15
15 Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight.
Hebrews 9:23
23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
So lets go back to Gen.1:2 and Is.45:18 and compare the two.
Genesis 1:2
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Isaiah 45:18
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
Both the words WITHOUT FORM in Gen.1:2 and VAIN in Is.45:18 are the same words.
Thus it is clear that God did not make the earth WITHOUT FORM and as He did not make it WITHOUT FORM then something must have happened to the EARTH to make it that way.
Now some might argue that the WITHOUT FORM was before the earth was made, but it is clear from verse 2 that the earth was already in place for it specifically says the EARTH was WITHOUT FORM.
Now remember that in verse 2 of Gen. the word WAS is also translated BECAME which backs up Isaiah 45:18 that God did not create the earth WITHOUT FORM but the earth BECAME WITHOUT FORM.
Now if we only had Isaiah 45:18 to go on people might say that we need a second witness to the earth BECOMING WITHOUT FORM.
Well let’s look at Gen.1:28
Genesis 1:28
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Did you get that? God said REPLENISH the EARTH.
This is the exact same command God gave Noah after the flood Gen.9:1
Now it should go without saying (but I am going to say it anyway) that if the earth is to be REPLENISHED then it must have had inhabitants before, just as the earth was inhabited before the flood in Noah’s day.
Gen.1:28 supports the translation in Gen.1:2 that the earth BECAME WITHOUT FORM and Is.45:18 that God never created the earth WITHOUT FORM.
Now some might argue that how can there have been another heaven and earth before this one that God overflowed with water, would that not then mean death was in the world before Adam sinned?
I can answer this two ways.
First: Gen.2:17 says
Genesis 2:17
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
The literal translation of thou shalt surely die is DYING THOU SHALT DIE
This literal reading clearly shows DEATH was in the world BEFORE Adam ate from the tree.
Now some might argue and say but if that is the case why does the bible say that Adam brought sin into the world and death by sin.
Lets look at the scripture
Romans 5:12-13
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
This set of scriptures clearly says that until the LAW sin was in the world but sin was not IMPUTED.
Thus if sin was not IMPUTED until Adam broke God’s LAW(commandment) not to eat of the tree then neither was death IMPUTED. Once Adam broke God’s LAW both sin and death was IMPUTED unto him and death by sin entered into the world.
Second: The world that then was spoken of in 2 Peter 3:5-7 was NOT the world Adam was created into, Adam brought sin into OUR WORLD not the world that then was.
As we have just seen that before the flood in Noah’s day that covered the earth there was a flood long before that which overflowed the HEAVEN and EARTH THAT THEN WAS.
So why did God have need overflow the HEAVEN and EARTH that then was?
Because of the angels that sinned and kept not their first estate.
2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jude 6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
According to the book of Revelation there was a war in HEAVEN and the OLD SERPENT called the DEVIL was cast out along with his ANGELS into the EARTH.
Revelation 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
What was the reason for this war?
According to Is. And Eze. It was because Satan wanted to exalt himself and be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Ezekiel 28:11-19
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Now I know some see these scriptures as referring to Satan, some to man(Adam) and some to the antichrist.
For myself I believe it is referring to all 3, there are layers to scripture and each layer holds the truth. Just read what the scriptures state about the antichrist and then compare those scriptures to these ones and you will see how these scriptures have reference to him.
Then read what the scriptures state about man (Adam) and you will see how these scriptures have reference to him. And just as they have reference to both man (Adam) and the antichrist they also have if you read about Satan reference to him. It is layer upon layer upon layer.
The problem with most people is that they see one layer and believe that it is the only layer there is, but you don’t often find gold lying upon the earth, you have to mine for it.
Thus Satan and his angels were cast into the earth and then HEAVENS and EARTH THAT THEN WAS were overflowed with water.
Now some might ask if Satan and his angels were overflowed with water why are they here in OUR world?
Herein is one of those layers to scripture I spoke on earlier. Lucifer is in reference to Satan and man and the reason why is because in the earth that then was Satan was a MAN. That does not mean he was a MAN such as we are, but is different from us in the same way the angelic are MEN yet differ from us. Man was made a little lower then the angelic.
I already know many are shaking their heads at this and probably thinking I am nuts, but all through scripture angels are referred to as MEN.
Revelation 21:17
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
We all know of the story of Sodom and Gomorra and how 3 MEN met Abraham and how 2 of those MEN went into that city and the scriptures tell us those 2 MEN were ANGELS. Gen. chapters 18 and 19
Now some might say ok I have a point but that does not explain why Satan is here in OUR world.
The reason being is he is now a SPIRIT, just as the waters that overflowed in the days of Noah did not destroy MANS SPIRIT just MANS body so to in the flood that overflowed the earth that then was.
1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Thus the body was dead but the SPIRIT lives on.
For a clearer understanding of this look again of what it says in Isaiah and what happened to Lucifer. Scripture states that he would be cast down to HELL.
HELL here is SHEOL in the Hebrew and HADES in the Greek and means the place of the DEAD or dwelling place of the DEAD.
Yet in Revelations it say Satan is cast into the EARTH thus making HELL (SHEOL/HADES) here on EARTH.
Think about what God said would happen to Adam if he ate from the tree, God said Adam would DIE in the DAY he ate from it.
So what happened to Adam on the DAY he ate?
He was cast out of the garden into HELL (SHEOL/HADES) and as ALL die in Adam ALL are in the place of the DEAD which is HELL (SHEOL/HADES).
Proverbs 15:24 says
24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.
Deuteronomy 32:22 says
22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
These scripture are clear testimony that HELL (SHEOL/HADES) is the EARTH we live in, for how else can the fire that burns into the lowest HELL consume the EARTH.
Matthew 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Ever wonder why the everlasting fire was prepared for the Devil and his angels and nothing is said about it being prepared for mankind?
It because this EARTH (HELL/SHEOL/HADES) was not PREPARED for man, the GARDEN was /is to be our dwelling place.
Remember HELL (SHEOL/HADES) is the dwelling place of the DEAD.
Now read
Ephesians 2:1-6
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
It is clear from these scriptures that those who walk according to the course of THIS WORLD are DEAD in trespasses and sin, and that Jesus came to give us LIFE that we may sit with Him in HEAVENLY PLACES. Thus Jesus came to save us OUT OF HELL.
So then now that we have seen that the HEAVEN and EARTH that then was, was overflowed with water, that HELL (SHEOL/HADES) is this EARTHLY REALM and that Satan dwells in this prison house as SPIRIT we can gain some insight to why Gen.1:2 says the EARTH BECAME WITHOUT FORM and the reason why God RECREATED the EARTH and placed MAN into it.
Satan is now a SPIRIT and is the god and prince of this world
2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
And is why scripture tells us that when we walked according to the course of this world
We walked according to the prince of the power of the air, that SPIRIT that worketh in the children of disobedience.
Ephesians 2:2
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
This world is not God world but Satan’s and he is king in it and when Adam disobeyed God Adam entered into the Satan’s world the dwelling place of the DEAD.
This is seen in that Jesus states
John 8:23
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Jesus is NOT of this WORLD and is why the prince of this WORLD has nothing in Him.
Jesus also states
John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Jesus KINGDOM is NOT of this WORLD, and this can be seen in Jesus temptation of the DEVIL.
Matthew 4:8-9
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
It is obvious that for one to give something away one must be in possession of that which one gives away. Thus the KINGDOMS of THIS WORLD belong to Satan.
We all know of the Greek mythology of HADES and how he is the ruler of his domain, did you ever wonder were this mythology came from?
It is not just something the Greek made up, it comes from the truth and like all of Satan’s tricks he corrupted the truth within mythology so man cannot discern fact from fiction.
There is truth in all mythology but it is covered up in mythology so that we cannot see the truth for the mythology, kind of like we can’t see the forest for all the trees.
I watched a program on TV awhile back and etched in the stones of the days of the Pharaohs when Israel was held captive was a story written about a man god who came to earth and died and rose again, it basically followed the story of Jesus, but was of Egyptian origin and this man god was of the Egyptians. The program was used to say the Christian of today believe in one of the myths of the Egyptians. That we took this myth that was written thousands of years before Christ and made up our own myths to support our religion.
So were did the Egyptians thousands of years before Christ came come up with this myth that so resembles the truth found in Christ?
The answer can be found in that Israel was a captive of Egypt and the Egyptians more then likely after reading their scriptures much as did the Romans in the day of Christ understood in part a truth written in them, or more likely thought to themselves that these Israelites have a better sounding God then the ones we serves so let’s make up our own version of their God and put it before the people. Thus taking the truth found in scripture and corrupting it.
So then we can see that Satan is the ruler of this world.
So why would God create man from the dust of this world, which is the dust of the dead.
This is the age old question: WHY did God make MAN.
The answer is not what you likely think it is.
God created MAN for the salvation of the ANGELIC.
Just as God sent Jesus into this world (HELL/SHEOL/HADES) to save man, Jesus sends forth His body (the church) to make known the fellowship of the mystery, which mystery is the salvation of the whole kosmos, which was God intent from the BEGININNG, to the principalities and powers in heavenly places.
Ephesians 3:9-11
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
This is seen more fully when we see that kingdoms of THIS WORLD which belong to Satan become the kingdoms of our LORD.
Revelation 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Colossians 1:16-20
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
What! know ye not that we shall judge angels? 1Co.6:3
Man simply does not realise his full potential in Christ, for Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1 Corinthians 2:9
"And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son, And was called Perdition for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning. And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning! And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ— Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about." D&C 76: 25-29
I have been reading a number of posts which refer to satan as Lucifer and it is believed that satan was originally a perfect angel who sinned against God when he desired to be like God.
God bless.
No, Satan was never a holy angel, never a cherub. Satan is the opposer, the slanderer, who was created to try/tempt/test angels and men, according to ancient writings like 1 Enoch and Jasher, besides the OT and NT and the book of Jubilees and writings in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Satan is a created evil spirit, created in heaven, and the head of the created evil spirits in heaven who do his will in trying/tempting/testing holy angels and men.
In the end, his place is the lake of fire, and all his victims who believed his lies instead of YHWH's Truth [Jesus Christ is the Truth] are cast there, where they will be tormented forever, as his "food" and eternal reward.
No, Satan was never a holy angel, never a cherub. Satan is the opposer, the slanderer, who was created to try/tempt/test angels and men, according to ancient writings like 1 Enoch and Jasher, besides the OT and NT and the book of Jubilees and writings in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Satan is a created evil spirit, created in heaven, and the head of the created evil spirits in heaven who do his will in trying/tempting/testing holy angels and men.
In the end, his place is the lake of fire, and all his victims who believed his lies instead of YHWH's Truth [Jesus Christ is the Truth] are cast there, where they will be tormented forever, as his "food" and eternal reward.
When the serpent beguiled Eve, that serpent was himself inspired by a satan, as the fragment of Noah in the Book of 1 Enoch states.
When the satans tempted the holy Watchers who were the sons of God in heaven, and who dwelled in Zion of the heavenlies [as pr. 1 Enoch] who were set over the Adam race as watchers/intercessors for their souls [as Daniel chapter 4 states], 200 of them sinned by receiving and acting upon the temptation of the satans, and became subject to the satans -just like men do who believe the lies of satan and become slaves to him and his evil angels.
1 Enoch states that the satans tempted them. They lost their place in heaven because of their evil fornication with the daughters of Adam, and were chained in Sheol below, as a warning to other Watchers who would be tempted to do the same fornication [as pr Jude], but more did be tempted by satans and more did fornicate with the daughters of Adam after the flood, as Moses wrote; and are to suffer the eternal darkness of the lake of fire along with all men who refuse to heed the warning to the fornicating Sodomites & Co, when they were nuked from heaven as a warning to other men who did the same as they [as pr Jude].
Dan 4:17This matter [is] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
Quote:
1 Enoch [Chapter 54]
1 And I looked and turned to another part of the earth, and saw there a deep valley with burning 2 fire. And they brought the kings and the mighty, and began to cast them into this deep valley. 3 And there mine eyes saw how they made these their instruments, iron chains of immeasurable weight. 4 And I asked the angel of peace who went with me, saying: ' For whom are these chains being prepared ? ' And he said unto me: ' These are being prepared for the hosts of Azazel, so that they may take them and cast them into the abyss of complete condemnation, and they shall cover their jaws with rough stones as the Lord of Spirits commanded. 6 And Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan[s] and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.
There is a chief satan, and many lesser satans under him, and they are the evil spirits in heaven who themselves are subject to YHWH. [note: the four creatures named above; Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Phanuel, are not four of the chief archangels of the same names, as pr 1 Enoch. These are the four beasts full of eyes round about who are the four beside the throne in Rev and in 1 Enoch -see * below]
When the holy watchers fell into fornication with the daughters of Adam, they produced the demon/damned spirits who were born of them in Adam flesh bodies got by fornication with the daughters of Adam, but who were not of the Adam spirit. When those demons were disembodied, they became evil spirits on earth who are themselves subject to the satans and do his will on earth in helping to tempt, try, and test men on earth, and they will also suffer the torment of the lake of fire, called the second death when they are gathered as the tares of earth, at Jesus' coming, and are cast there.
Enoch taught them this, as is written in 1 Enoch in the "Book of the Watchers". They know it, and that is why the man with the "legion" of demons cried out to Jesus "Have you come to torment us before the time?"
1 Enoch [Chapter 40]
1 And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude 2 beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things. 3 And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory. 4,5 The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever. And the second voice I heard blessing 6 the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits. 7 And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord 8 of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: 'Who are these four presences which I have 9 seen and whose words I have heard and written down?' And he said to me: 'This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.' 10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.
[Chapter 39] Those who sleep not bless Thee: they stand before Thy glory and bless, praise, and extol, saying: "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of Spirits: He filleth the earth with 3 spirits."' And here my eyes saw all those who sleep not: they stand before Him and bless and say: 'Blessed be Thou, and blessed be the name of the Lord for ever and ever.' And my face was changed; for I could no longer behold.
Rev 4:6 And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind. Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about [him]; and [they were] full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Because of 1 Enoch and Ezekiel 1, there is reason to believe that the four beasts are the "Ophannim", who are different from the Cherubim and Serafim, as pr Enoch. Unfortunately, the English translators, not having 1 Enoch, translated their name as "wheels" in Ezekiel 1, but they have the eyes round about, and have wings.
Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 01-05-2010 at 10:11 AM..
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6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 
