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Are you talking about 19th century Catholicism? No I personally do not do Hail Marys, but I love the
devotion and enjoy watching others do that. I like to see a statue of the Virgin in every catholic Church.
Since you are a Bible Fundamentalist you need to study this verse:
John 20:21-23
Jesus Appears to the Disciples
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”
Jesus gave the apostles the license to remit sins in his name. And the Catholic Church is Apostolic.
I know you never read this part of the bible. I get that!
Perhaps you should take the verse to your preacher to see hat he thinks.
So you think your Priest has the same power the Apostles did? I got news for you. He ain't no Apostle. In fact you have not Apostles in your church today. And that was given to the 12 still under the Law. We are now under the dispensation of Grace. You need to learn the difference between Jew's living under the law, like Jesus and the 12 and the current dispensation. I can refer you to some excellent studies to help you understand the difference if you are interested in it.
Are you talking about 19th century Catholicism? No I personally do not do Hail Marys, but I love the
devotion and enjoy watching others do that. I like to see a statue of the Virgin in every catholic Church.
Since you are a Bible Fundamentalist you need to study this verse:
John 20:21-23
Jesus Appears to the Disciples
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”
Jesus gave the apostles the license to remit sins in his name. And the Catholic Church is Apostolic.
I know you never read this part of the bible. I get that!
Perhaps you should take the verse to your preacher to see hat he thinks.
Yes to THOSE individuals. Nothing indicates it was a right to be passed on.
So you think your Priest has the same power the Apostles did? I got news for you. He ain't no Apostle. In fact you have not Apostles in your church today. And that was given to the 12 still under the Law. We are now under the dispensation of Grace. You need to learn the difference between Jew's living under the law, like Jesus and the 12 and the current dispensation. I can refer you to some excellent studies to help you understand the difference if you are interested in it.
The Apostles were commanded by Jesus to perform Apostolic succession. Don't try to change the subject. I have shown the biblical reason for confession.
Yes to THOSE individuals. Nothing indicates it was a right to be passed on.
This is too easy. A catholic teaching Scripture to a Protestant. Everybody knows the Sola Scriptura folks should know the Bible.
2 Timothy 2:2
English Standard Version (ESV)
2 and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men[a] who will be able to teach others also.
Furthermore look up the definition of the word Apostle:
Word Origin & History
apostle
O.E. apostol "messenger," especially the 12 witnesses sent forth by Jesus to preach his Gospel, from L.L. apostolus, from Gk. apostolos "messenger, person sent forth," from apostellein "send away, send forth," from apo- "away" (see apo-) + stellein "to send" (cf. epistle).
Jesus commanded the Apostles to teach other so they in turn could teach others and so on. This was done to avoid contamination by heretics. Today every single Catholic priest can trace his ordination to the Apostles.
Let me know what you think after you watch the video. I hope it helps. By the way i never said a prayer to a saint or the virgin, but some Catholics folks do. You are complaining about a small part of the CC which is related to Catholic Culture.
First off, I'm not complaining. I was trying to offer perspective on the matter. It was an informative video, but it doesn't change much. I was already quite familiar with that line of explanation. Personally, I respect yours or anyone else's right to whatever religious practice they wish. As long as it does no harm to anyone else, then that is each person's right. I set forth the viewpoint of the non-Catholic objector since janelle stated that she didn't understand why so much fuss was being made about RCC theology surrounding Mary. I interjected the perspective held by those who object most strongly.
The entire issue comes down to diversion of honor, glory, praise, etc away from God and directed at Mary and other saints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144
But that is all false. Actually, a lot of Protestants are now interested in Mary, especially after the movies out lately. They are now seeing her importance in salvation history. They are also taking time to really learn what is taught about her and not the false teachings floating around, same with the saints.
As stated, it's a more extreme example of the anti-saints anti-Mary point of view, but there is a certain amount of validity to the objection. Even if Protestants are exaggerating quite spectacularly, at the end of the day the average Catholic expends tremendous devotion, reverence and honor on saints. From the Protestant point of view, at minimum this is energy diverted away from direct communion and reverence of God.
As stated above, as far as I'm concerned, you or any other Christian can do as you please. I have heard the RCC explanations, but I remain baffled by the RCC's sanction of patronage, reverence and prayer to/through saints. End of the day, it still doesn't make sense to me and it probably never will. I do try to understand it anyways though.
By the way, Protestants have always been interested in Mary. They have always been extremely grateful for the part she played. But your average Protestant isn't going to be erecting shrines and statues to Mary and praying through/to her anytime soon. Do not mistake this as contempt for Mary. Hating on Mary's got nothing to do with it. To your Protestant, you pray to God himself and nobody else.
First off, I'm not complaining. I was trying to offer perspective on the matter. It was an informative video, but it doesn't change much. I was already quite familiar with that line of explanation. Personally, I respect yours or anyone else's right to whatever religious practice they wish. As long as it does no harm to anyone else, then that is each person's right. I set forth the viewpoint of the non-Catholic objector since janelle stated that she didn't understand why so much fuss was being made about RCC theology surrounding Mary. I interjected the perspective held by those who object most strongly.
The entire issue comes down to diversion of honor, glory, praise, etc away from God and directed at Mary and other saints.
As stated, it's a more extreme example of the anti-saints anti-Mary point of view, but there is a certain amount of validity to the objection. Even if Protestants are exaggerating quite spectacularly, at the end of the day the average Catholic expends tremendous devotion, reverence and honor on saints. From the Protestant point of view, at minimum this is energy diverted away from direct communion and reverence of God.
As stated above, as far as I'm concerned, you or any other Christian can do as you please. I have heard the RCC explanations, but I remain baffled by the RCC's sanction of patronage, reverence and prayer to/through saints. End of the day, it still doesn't make sense to me and it probably never will. I do try to understand it anyways though.
By the way, Protestants have always been interested in Mary. They have always been extremely grateful for the part she played. But your average Protestant isn't going to be erecting shrines and statues to Mary and praying through/to her anytime soon. Do not mistake this as contempt for Mary. Hating on Mary's got nothing to do with it. To your Protestant, you pray to God himself and nobody else.
I am Catholic. I never pray to Saints or the virgin. This is blown out of proportion by Protestants. Does it happen? Sure! It is part of our cultural heritage and traditions. When I visited the San Juan Capistrano Mission in Orange County, California there is a statue of a Saint Peregrine who was supposedly cured from cancer in the 13th century. There is a book and people leave petitions because for some reason he is known as the patron saint of cancer patients. In the old days people used to leave petitions to the saint. Who cares!! This is just harmless cultural catholicism which was more prevalent in antiquity.
In the very early days of Christianity people felt saints were special. This is just an old tradition, nothing more. But it helps people make a connection with God.
No one prays to saints during mass. I have never seen a person praying to saints in my church. But, if I saw one I would think it is rather cute. Who cares!
There is no praying to the virgin during mass.
For those that come to Christianity with Sola Scriptura in a vacuum with no concept of history these things don't make sense. Could you know what is like to be a Russian or Mexican if you never studied the history, culture, or language?
I am Catholic. I never pray to Saints or the virgin. This is blown out of proportion by Protestants. Does it happen? Sure! It is part of our cultural heritage and traditions. When I visited the San Juan Capistrano Mission in Orange County, California there is a statue of a Saint Peregrine who was supposedly cured from cancer in the 13th century. There is a book and people leave petitions because for some reason he is known as the patron saint of cancer patients. In the old days people used to leave petitions to the saint. Who cares!! This is just harmless cultural catholicism which was more prevalent in antiquity.
In the very early days of Christianity people felt saints were special. This is just an old tradition, nothing more. But it helps people make a connection with God.
No one prays to saints during mass. I have never seen a person praying to saints in my church. But, if I saw one I would think it is rather cute. Who cares!
There is no praying to the virgin during mass.
For those that come to Christianity with Sola Scriptura in a vacuum with no concept of history these things don't make sense. Could you know what is like to be a Russian or Mexican if you never studied the history, culture, or language?
Speak for yourself. I pray the rosary and as a matter of fact I have a 3 ft. statue of Mary in my living room. In no way am I ashamed of it and I won't let any Protestant who does not understand or Catholic that does not join in, make me ashamed.
As one can see there are differences in thinking of these things with Catholics. Really doesn't bother me though since we are all free to worship as we please.
Speak for yourself. I pray the rosary and as a matter of fact I have a 3 ft. statue of Mary in my living room. In no way am I ashamed of it and I won't let any Protestant who does not understand or Catholic that does not join in, make me ashamed.
As one can see there are differences in thinking of these things with Catholics. Really doesn't bother me though since we are all free to worship as we please.
I have never prayed to the Virgin or if I did I forgot. I don't pray at home either. I just go to mass every Sunday, that is it. My wife is a Eucharist minister and she has a few figures of Mary. I see nothing wrong with a prayer to the virgin, but I don't pray at home. At most I have thoughts that could be considered a prayer.
If they prayed to the virgin during mass I would. The Rosary is something else. I just cannot do it, but i don't come from a family that did it. Nevertheless, I have tremendous admiration to those that pray the Rosary, it is beautiful.
Speak for yourself. I pray the rosary and as a matter of fact I have a 3 ft. statue of Mary in my living room. In no way am I ashamed of it and I won't let any Protestant who does not understand or Catholic that does not join in, make me ashamed.
As one can see there are differences in thinking of these things with Catholics. Really doesn't bother me though since we are all free to worship as we please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
I am Catholic. I never pray to Saints or the virgin. This is blown out of proportion by Protestants. Does it happen? Sure! It is part of our cultural heritage and traditions. When I visited the San Juan Capistrano Mission in Orange County, California there is a statue of a Saint Peregrine who was supposedly cured from cancer in the 13th century. There is a book and people leave petitions because for some reason he is known as the patron saint of cancer patients. In the old days people used to leave petitions to the saint. Who cares!! This is just harmless cultural catholicism which was more prevalent in antiquity.
In the very early days of Christianity people felt saints were special. This is just an old tradition, nothing more. But it helps people make a connection with God.
No one prays to saints during mass. I have never seen a person praying to saints in my church. But, if I saw one I would think it is rather cute. Who cares!
There is no praying to the virgin during mass.
Actually I do understand. I've seen cherished beliefs of my own and others mocked and belittled and I am not trying to do that here. As long as you understand why Protestantism and other non-Catholic denominations object to the whole business of Mary and saints, nothing more needs to be said on the matter. We don't have to agree to understand one another.
Quote:
For those that come to Christianity with Sola Scriptura in a vacuum with no concept of history these things don't make sense. Could you know what is like to be a Russian or Mexican if you never studied the history, culture, or language?
I suppose I would make a lousy Protestant. I do not believe in Sola Scriptura nor do I believe that the Bible is complete nor flawless. I am more Restorationist in my thinking. I believe that God can and does still speak for himself today. I believe that the whole point of the Bible and any Christian religion is to get us to speak and interact directly with God himself.
I do have the utmost respect for Catholicism. As stated before, one of the biggest reasons that all other Christian religions focus on attacking and disproving the RCC is because it is the only way to validate their own religion's existence. I do not believe that Catholicism represents God's Church and Kingdom on Earth. At the same time, I admire the RCC for holding the line on issues of sin and morality. Things like abortion and homosexuality where humanity seems to be losing its moral compass. Countless good Christian Catholics lead the way on fighting hunger, sickness and countless other terrible things. The RCC of today is an exemplary Christian religion on nearly every issue. This is the stuff that matters most. Doctrinally, we will just have to agree to disagree. The only reason I was commenting on the matter was to clarify why we disagree on one specific doctrinal matter.
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