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God's grace isn't about giving a person the opportunity to prove themselves worthy, and when you've shown him then .....
God never ever ... ever ... ever ... ever ... ever ... made such statement \ revelation as grace being conditional by showing your obedience other than it being free.
Matthew 10:8
... Freely you have received; freely give.
Romans 3:24
and all are justified freelyby his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 1:6
to the praise of his glorious grace,which he has freely given usin the One he loves.
1 Corinthians 2:12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.
Revelation 22:17
The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come;
and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
But a person has to hold up their end of the bargain by believing, right? As if belief were something voluntary. Conservative Lutherans even go so far as saying that "unbelief" is a sin.
As regards the supposed special status of Jews, you are right. I reject it and will never understand how anyone COULD accept it. As regards obedience to laws and rules, it is you and those "Obeyers", like Katz and so many others who do NOT seem to understand our loving God. Obedience was needed during the Schoolmaster stage of our species' evolution. But it is to be discarded when we reach spiritual maturity in agape love of God and each other. I understand that we are all at different stages of spiritual development, Richard, and obedience plays an important role for many. But it is NOT the desired state of mind. Those who stay in it fail to develop properly, IMO.
Looks more like you consider yourself in a special status....
Belief is involuntary. I can't make myself believe something. If I don't believe something, it's because I am not convinced. My lack of belief in the unbelievable is not some kind of character flaw.
Your self announced lack of belief doesn't stem from a character flaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
But a person has to hold up their end of the bargain by believing, right? As if belief were something voluntary. Conservative Lutherans even go so far as saying that "unbelief" is a sin.
Your mental blockage to correct Biblical teaching doesn't stem from a character flaw if you think the correct faith is some sort of "bargain" with God.
Your self announced lack of belief doesn't stem from a character flaw
Your mental blockage to correct Biblical teaching doesn't stem from a character flaw if you think the correct faith is some sort of "bargain" with God.
Ok, so what's the problem? Why do people like me deserve never-ending torture after we die?
Your self announced lack of belief doesn't stem from a character flaw
Your mental blockage to correct Biblical teaching doesn't stem from a character flaw if you think the correct faith is some sort of "bargain" with God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80
Ok, so what's the problem? Why do people like me deserve never-ending torture after we die?
God never ever made such a revelation as grace being conditional by your obedience other than it being free.
Matthew 10:8
... Freely you have received; freely give.
Romans 3:24
and all are justified freelyby his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 1:6
to the praise of his glorious grace,which he has freely given usin the One he loves.
1 Corinthians 2:12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.
Revelation 22:17
The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come;
and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
Belief is involuntary. I can't make myself believe something. If I don't believe something, it's because I am not convinced. My lack of belief in the unbelievable is not some kind of character flaw.
You make a valid point. Man often will not consider something in order to maintain his belief or disbelief as the case may be. Others listen, read, view, research, and/or investigate to see if they can believe a thing or not. I know many who will not consider the bible at all and I am sure it is to maintain their rejection of it or parts of it. So I do believe we have a voluntary role to play many times in what we believe.
I am reminded of the scripture that say's "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God". So many work hard at rejecting the Word of God in order to prevent gaining faith. IMHO
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