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At the very least, you can't argue that your position is an absolute since this is obviously still a matter of debate in our highest courts.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
This is why lawyers are needed to address case-specific issues. The Hobby Lobby case has nothing to do with discrimination. It has to do with the provision of benefits for its employees. They refuse to cover benefits for abortifacients that violate their belief in a right to life. That is only internal to the company and does not affect its customers.
And, the ruling did not in any way provide a license to discriminate.
Whether or not it is a "sin," if God is NOT counting our sins against us why should you or the baker do so????
The baker is not counting sins against anyone, he/she is only trying honor God with his/her OWN actions. In his/her opinion, that having anything to do with a gay wedding would not honor God, and therefore declined the cake. That is called "practicing his/her religion".
But of course the agenda mandates he/she must be accused discrimination, hatred, bigotry etc. That is the name of the game.
The discussion has been through this so many times its not even funny. Should they be forced to make KKK cakes? Should he be forced to sell Nazi cakes? How about cakes which mock Christ? Cakes to worship satan? No, in my opinion he/she gets to decide what actions honor God and which do not, and refrain from the ones which she believes do not honor his/her God, no matter what god he/she even worships. The government should not force people to do things which they believe dishonor their god. That is why the 1st amendment was written.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 10-30-2019 at 05:51 AM..
The baker is not counting sins against anyone, he/she is only trying honor God with his/her OWN actions. In his/her opinion, having anything to do with a gay wedding would not honor God, and therefore declined the cake. That is called "practicing his/her religion".
No, It is called blatant discrimination against one kind of assumed sinner. Don’t deny it you believe we are all sinners. So, if you going serve one kind of sinner you should serve all sinners, including the homosexuals you believe are sinners.
I would like to hear from you, Jeff and Bapfun why you believe every other assumed sinner should be served by the bakery other than the homosexual. Or is there another kind of sinner too that bakers should be refusing service ?.
I would say Facebook has a responsibility to not allow it's platform to be used for hate speech. And, the 1st Amendment is intended to keep the government in check, not Facebook.
And likewise, the 1st Amendment was not put in place to keep a business owner from violating their moral conscience. Weird how that only works when it's an issue you agree with, isn't it?
Your religious views are discriminatory. Of all the so called sinners out there, you only single out homosexuals.
Guy walks into a bakery to buy a birthday cake for the woman he’s in an adulterous relationship with. The baker knows him very well and knows too that he’s in an adulterous relationship. Does he serve him ?
It's up to the baker. I have no issue with the baker refusing.
And likewise, the 1st Amendment was not put in place to keep a business owner from violating their moral conscience. Weird how that only works when it's an issue you agree with, isn't it?
Why are you equating a company not allowing their platform to be used for discriminatory hate speech, to a company using its platform to discriminate?
Why are you equating a company not allowing their platform to be used for discriminatory hate speech, to a company using its platform to discriminate?
Both are dealing with First Amendment issues. If a company has a right to refuse to allow speech, then another company has a right to refuse service on an issue they're morally opposed to.
Is the cake for a ceremony that celebrates the act of adultery? Umm no. So there is no comparison. Same sex marriage is a celebration of sin.
This is not a satisfactory answer. So it's not the sin that is an issue, but having a ceremony to "celebrate" it? That seems like an illogical distinction. It doesn't matter if someone is committing adultery, as long as they don't have a party about it? Is there something about having a party that makes a sin somehow worse in God's eyes? It seems that this is a stock answer to avoid the obvious implications if the position is followed to its logical conclusion.
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
It's up to the baker. I have no issue with the baker refusing.
What if the demographics of America changed, and Christians were now in the minority. And the entire culture changed, so that the Judeo-Christian influence waned. And the prevailing religions all felt it was immoral to serve the Christians? This strikes me as a view that is easy to hold if you really don't believe you will be at the receiving end of it.
Both are dealing with First Amendment issues. If a company has a right to refuse to allow speech, then another company has a right to refuse service on an issue they're morally opposed to.
The 1st Amendment protect you from the government. Freedom of Speech is entirely irrelevant on a privately owned web site. Web sites can, and do, make whatever rules they deem acceptable for the use of their sites. You can go read the Terms of Service to see what rules City-Data has in place. Then make some racist remarks and see how your Freedom Of Speech works out. Anti-discrimination laws apply to many things, including hiring practices, accommodations, and commercial transactions. These are obviously very different issues.
And to think, you were belittling my understanding of the Constitution. Bizarre!
Well I could say the same for a daughter marrying her father. A celebration of love. Doesn't make it right.
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