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We've been over this many times. It's a shame that you, a mod, continue to misrepresent us. They weren't discriminating against gay people. They were saying they did not want to make a cake for a ceremony they were morally opposed to.
And with that in mind, you have no issue with businesses denying 1st Amendment rights to customers they are morally opposed to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
And once again, the ceremony is composed of people. They aren't denying a wedding, they are denying the people who are participating. Your continued ignorance matters not in the slightest.
As to the bold, I assume this is your way of bringing up Facebook again, but not saying Facebook? This has been explained NUMEROUS times to you, BF. Again, your continued ignorance doesn't change the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
I'm not misrepresenting anything. They refused to make a cake because a gay person wanted in for her wedding.
The bakers aren't invited to the wedding. They are selling a product. Nobody's 1st Amendment rights have been infringed. Operating a business is not a religious practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
You're misrepresenting me. That's a rules violation. It's sad that you can't be truthful. They refused to bake a cake for a same sex wedding. If you can't be honest on my position, it says a lot about you.
This is sad. This is why we claim a double standard here.
They refused to bake a cake for a same sex wedding which consists of...? You cannot have a wedding without the participants. So, the only one who isn't honest, even with himself is that of yourself.
Why doesn't your religious belief to be kind and compassionate to your neighbor trump your religious belief to be mean to the type of people you don't like because the rule book says you shouldn't?
Read the Good Samaritan story sometime. It's exactly about people who chose the rules over compassion.
In addition to hurting someone, you've forfeited any chance of them getting to better know the loving God you claim to believe in, because they'll just see you as a mean, unkind, and self-righteous person, and by extension, the religion you represent as cold and rejecting.
Helping people celebrate sin is not being a good Samaritan. Is it being a good Samaritan to help the bank robbers change their flat tire so they can get away?
Baking a cake for a customer is "violating your morals"?? Being a decent human being is "violating your morals"?? Fact is, as has been said NUMEROUS times already, they don't HAVE to sell wedding cakes. They choose to sell wedding cakes, and then choose to refuse gay couples. The easy fix, is to simply stop selling wedding cakes. You won't get sued or fined, and you don't have to violate any morals. Or is making money on wedding cakes worth more than your "beliefs"??
It's more than just the cake. The example I provided explained how it is a personal involvement done with love and care. They don't want to help an immoral ceremony be a success! What about being a decent human being and just respect that people don't believe like you and leave them alone?
They built their business way before SSM was legalized so don't give me that crap that they can just give up their passion and go find a new career. You must not know the hard work and sacrifice that goes into creating your own business.
It's more than just the cake. The example I provided explained how it is a personal involvement done with love and care. They don't want to help an immoral ceremony be a success! What about being a decent human being and just respect that people don't believe like you and leave them alone?
And that is the choice of the baker/florist/etc, Jeff. Surely you don't believe all these bakers are consoling brides, helping clean dresses, and things like that at every wedding? The person that made my cake did nothing but make it and deliver it. It was delivered hours before the wedding, she wasn't present while we were getting ready, getting married, or afterwards. She didn't even see myself or my husband, and only dealt with my husbands mom at the venue. Again, no one is asking that the baker/florist go and deliver the cake, and make friends with the people, hang out at the wedding, and make a toast, are they?
Like I said before, your florist, if I recall, said she had to "believe in the ceremony" to participate. So are you telling me that she "believed in" every other wedding? Every other couple, even the ones on their 2nd/3rd/4th marriages?? Please. Nothing but excuses to keep her prejudice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
They built their business way before SSM was legalized so don't give me that crap that they can just give up their passion and go find a new career. You must not know the hard work and sacrifice that goes into creating your own business.
And??? New laws go into effect, Jeff. A good business owner knows that they may have to change things at some point. If wedding cakes specifically are their passion, then I suggest they get over their ingrained bigotry and make the cakes. Otherwise, put your money where your mouth is, if your beliefs are that important to you.
See, you like to say things like, "They can just go somewhere else!" when talking of the gay people who have been turned away, but aren't willing to say the same about the owner. Why? Why can't the owner "just do something else"? Why can't they "just make something else"? Fact is, whether you like it or not, owners have to do certain things. Sometimes they don't like those things, but they have to do them nonetheless. This is no different.
The difference, is the business owner is choosing to be in business, and sell certain items. If you are going to sell an item to straight people, you should be FORCED (yes, forced) to also provide that item or service to gay people. To not do so it discrimination. Period.
Helping people celebrate sin is not being a good Samaritan. Is it being a good Samaritan to help the bank robbers change their flat tire so they can get away?
They aren't celebrating sin, though. They are people in love celebrating their joy.
Notice you didn't address the rest of what I said, which just confirms my suspicion that it's not about your faith or about God but rather about your personal feelings.
They aren't celebrating sin, though. They are people in love celebrating their joy.
Notice you didn't address the rest of what I said, which just confirms my suspicion that it's not about your faith or about God but rather about your personal feelings.
I have never understood their thinking on this. How is a wedding "sin"? Essentially they are saying, "We don't want to celebrate the sex that they might have after they get married".
I have never understood their thinking on this. How is a wedding "sin"? Essentially they are saying, "We don't want to celebrate the sex that they might have after they get married".
Far less abortions/unwanted pregnancies with same sex marriages.
They aren't celebrating sin, though. They are people in love celebrating their joy.
Notice you didn't address the rest of what I said, which just confirms my suspicion that it's not about your faith or about God but rather about your personal feelings.
Right, we are so mean and uncaring because we don't want to celebrate sin like you do huh? It's mean and uncaring to cheer and applaud them while they go down a path that at the very least robs them of God's blessings (God can not bless or produce fruit in someone who lives in open rebellion).
Regardless of how you dress it up, the wedding is still a public commitment to continue in rebellion against God's nature design. You can keep your suspicions. It only shows a need to resort to cheap tactics to me.
Right, we are so mean and uncaring because we don't want to celebrate sin like you do huh? It's mean and uncaring to cheer and applaud them while they go down a path that at the very least robs them of God's blessings (God can not bless or produce fruit in someone who lives in open rebellion).
Regardless of how you dress it up, the wedding is still a public commitment to continue in rebellion against God's nature design. You can keep your suspicions. It only shows a need to resort to cheap tactics to me.
Do you have this same thought about atheists, Jeff? After all, they are living "openly in rebellion", right? Obviously not in rebellion of "design" (he obviously designed people to be gay, so this argument isn't a very good one anyways), but in rebellion of his religion and very being, right?
It's more than just the cake. The example I provided explained how it is a personal involvement done with love and care. They don't want to help an immoral ceremony be a success! What about being a decent human being and just respect that people don't believe like you and leave them alone?
They built their business way before SSM was legalized so don't give me that crap that they can just give up their passion and go find a new career. You must not know the hard work and sacrifice that goes into creating your own business.
Just admit you don't care for the idea of SSM and leave it at that, instead of making excuses for discrimination.
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