Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ok so what is the alternative? Love the sinner and embrace the sin? It sounds like you want to teach to be conformed to this world so that your mind can be renewed according to whatever society accepts. The Bible teaches the exact opposite:
Romans 12:2
We are to be aliens in this world, not like everyone else. And for someone gay then yes, that can mean to not give into the desires of your flesh.
We are not to judge each other!
We are to be open books
The spirit which is to be in the HOUSE OF GOD is this
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control. Against such things there is not a law.
Gal 5:24 But the ones belonging to Christ crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
Gal 4:22 For it has been written, Abraham had two sons, one out of the slave woman and one out of the free woman.
Gal 4:23 But, indeed, he of the slave woman has been born according to flesh, and he out of the free woman through the promise,
Gal 4:24 which things are being allegorized, for these are two covenants, one, indeed, from Mount Sinai bringing forth to slavery (which is Hagar,
Gal 4:25 for Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, and she slaves with her children),
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem from above is free, who is the mother of us all;
I see the directive to not be conformed to this world something for me to discuss with, meditate on and ponder between me and the Lord. It will look as different from one to another as there are people out there. It is not for me to dictate to anyone else, not even my spouse, my parents, my brothers or even my own kids. My directive is to not teach God to anyone. God cannot be taught. God is to be discovered. All I or you can do is teach someone to seek.
The spirit which is to be in the HOUSE OF GOD is this
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control. Against such things there is not a law.
Gal 5:24 But the ones belonging to Christ crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
Gal 4:22 For it has been written, Abraham had two sons, one out of the slave woman and one out of the free woman.
Gal 4:23 But, indeed, he of the slave woman has been born according to flesh, and he out of the free woman through the promise,
Gal 4:24 which things are being allegorized, for these are two covenants, one, indeed, from Mount Sinai bringing forth to slavery (which is Hagar,
Gal 4:25 for Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, and she slaves with her children),
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem from above is free, who is the mother of us all;
That you are of two sons, two seeds, you have two mothers, there are two covenants, there are two laws, one law of flesh for the first born where all people alive are convicted by the law of the flesh.
But there is another son present, a different covenant for him, a different law for him, and his law is hidden within the first law.
A goat and a sheep.
A tare and the wheat.
But God will create a new being, there will be a new spirit from the heavens, and a new body for the earth, and there shall be no more sea, men will no longer be made of water, but of spirit.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.. Homosexuality is a sin. It is unnatural. Adultery is a sin. Promiscuity is a sin. Yet God loves the sinner, and hates the sin..
Homosexuality is a behavior, it is not an identity. Those that have fallen into a homosexual lifestyle are believing a lie... they have followed the wrong spirit. They are overtaken with a lust spirit and are opened to all spirits because they did not follow the truth. You are what you believe. Those who follow the homosexual spirit have chosen to believe the lie. Many will be given over to a reprobate mind for putting their flesh before their maker.
I'm going to re-post Mary Lou Wallner's letter to her lesbian daughter, after her daughter had come out to her.
Quote:
Undoubtedly, the most difficult part of your letter was the gay thing. I will never accept that in you. I feel it’s a terrible waste, besides being spiritually and morally wrong. For a reason I don’t quite fathom, I have a harder time dealing with that issue than almost anything in the world. I do and will continue to love you, but I will always hate that, and will pray every day that you will change your mind and attitude.
On February 28, 1997 at 10:00 p.m., I received a phone call from my ex-husband and Anna's Dad. At about 4:00 p.m. that afternoon, Anna had been found hanging from the bar in her closet. She had been dead for 15 hours. It was ruled a suicide by the coroner -- no autopsy, no note, no nothing -- but days, weeks, months and years of pain and anguish.
I have heard it said that when a loved one dies of suicide, there is a sense of utter failure. I can identify with that. I did not love her unconditionally, even though I knew 1 Corinthians 13 well. Among other things it says, Love is patient...and kind; Love is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs...It always protects, always hopes, always perseveres.
Throughout these years, since Anna's death, I have done a lot of soul searching to figure out just what part I played in Anna's death. I have wrestled with who I am and how I treated my own flesh and blood.
No matter what else happens in my life, I will always acknowledge the pain and tragedy of Anna's suicide. However, her death has also brought me face-to-face with the untruth I have been taught throughout my life by the church. My transformation has occurred through a wonderful gift given to me by God: getting to know, understand, and love GLBTA (Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals, Transgenders, and Allies). I am now proud to call myself an ally and am honored to count these children of God amongst my closest and dearest friends. This new awareness has been supported through intense study of biblical passages, as well as continued dialogue with individuals on both sides of the issue.
I've had the privilege of speaking to Mary Lou by email. She's an amazing person. She helped me come to terms with my own family disowning me.
Ok so what is the alternative? Love the sinner and embrace the sin? It sounds like you want to teach to be conformed to this world so that your mind can be renewed according to whatever society accepts. The Bible teaches the exact opposite:
Romans 12:2
We are to be aliens in this world, not like everyone else. And for someone gay then yes, that can mean to not give into the desires of your flesh.
Love and embrace the sinner, as you love and embrace yourself.
This is where you seem to lack some reading comprehension. I've never suggested that Christian business owners should be able to "discriminate against gays". At least no more so than atheist groups can discriminate against Christians. In the case of the bakers, they served gay people. They had no issue with that. They did not want to participate in a gay wedding. And that is their right under State and Federal laws.
Do you believe a baker has a right to refuse to bake a cake for any group? The KKK?
Do you believe Facebook can restrict what is posted? Twitter? City-Data? If so, why don't Christians have the right to do that on the cakes they bake?
How you would take that and say that I think that gay people are inferior, or that I'm better than them, or that we should be able to mistreat a gay person is just ridiculous. It clearly demonstrates your agenda to discredit Christians in an attempt to push your view.
Just because you can refuse to bake a cake for a same sex couple, or photograph thier wedding, doesn't mean you should.
Also, a celebration of love and commitment (a wedding) isn't a group and is not the same as a hate group (the KKK). Stop comparing the two. It's ridiculous.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.. Homosexuality is a sin. It is unnatural. Adultery is a sin. Promiscuity is a sin. Yet God loves the sinner, and hates the sin..
Homosexuality is a behavior, it is not an identity. Those that have fallen into a homosexual lifestyle are believing a lie... they have followed the wrong spirit. They are overtaken with a lust spirit and are opened to all spirits because they did not follow the truth. You are what you believe. Those who follow the homosexual spirit have chosen to believe the lie. Many will be given over to a reprobate mind for putting their flesh before their maker.
You use “hate the sin, love the sinner” in order to desensitize your soul and justify your condemnation and hate.
The alternative is to focus on transforming ourselves. Turning our hearts to God. Trust God that whatever "sins" people have, God will take care of that and draw them to himself according to the plan he has for each person, which you are not privy to. In the meantime, just work at being the light of the world, at learning what love, mercy, forgiveness, generosity, etc means. I don't see how pointing out the "sins" of others is in any way necessary toward the primary task of transforming your own heart and mind. How can an un-transformed mind even see clearly enough to point out someone's sins (with a plank in the eye, and all). That should pretty much keep us busy for a lifetime, so that's the alternative.
You have a beautiful soul, kmom.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
