Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
...............I don't actually think that any person is a true atheist. God cannot be denied indefinitely. Eventually God will make itself known to each of us.
I find at Ezekiel 38:23 does agree that God will make Himself known to each of us aka all on Earth.
Will it be a positive knowing or a negative knowing is the matter at hand:
For the figurative humble 'sheep' will be separated from the haughty 'goats' at Jesus *Glory Time* of Matthew 25:31-33,37
I find at Ezekiel 38:23 does agree that God will make Himself known to each of us aka all on Earth.
Will it be a positive knowing or a negative knowing is the matter at hand:
For the figurative humble 'sheep' will be separated from the haughty 'goats' at Jesus *Glory Time* of Matthew 25:31-33,37
If, no one is a hundred percent good or one hundred percent bad, then you might want to reconsider where these tares are? Because they reside within you (individually and collectively), so you might not want to go around pointing your finger at others, as "the humble or haughty sheep?" Which appears to be the trademark of the Jehovah Witnesses and/or extreme fundamentalists. *Along with their eternal damnation theologies and HELL DOCTRINES.
*(You might not find it, so glorious for that of yourselves with your haughty doctrines.)
If, no one is a hundred percent good or one hundred percent bad, then you might want to reconsider where these tares are? Because they reside within you (individually and collectively), so you might not want to go around pointing your finger at others, as "the humble or haughty sheep?" Which appears to be the trademark of the Jehovah Witnesses and/or extreme fundamentalists. *Along with their eternal damnation theologies and HELL DOCTRINES.
*(You might not find it, so glorious for that of yourselves with your haughty doctrines.)
If, no one is a hundred percent good or one hundred percent bad, then you might want to reconsider where these tares are? Because they reside within you (individually and collectively), so you might not want to go around pointing your finger at others, as "the humble or haughty sheep?" Which appears to be the trademark of the Jehovah Witnesses and/or extreme fundamentalists. *Along with their eternal damnation theologies and HELL DOCTRINES.
*(You might not find it, so glorious for that of yourselves with your haughty doctrines.)
Jehovah's Witnesses do not have a "Hell Doctrine."
We believe that when you die there is nothing that survives death. Rather, man's hope is in the resurrection. It's what many ancient Hebrews including Jesus believed.
That resurrection includes the righteous and the unrighteous just as the apostle Paul stated in Acts 24:15
Jesus is the one who has been given authority to judge individuals
And the Bible provides answers as to what qualities please God and which do not.
So, if Jehovah's Witnesses share with others the fine qualities that will help all of us become better individuals it's not pointing a finger at others.
"...The fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law."-Galatians 5:22,23
Cultivating such qualities strengthens each individual and is a protection against committing hurtful actions.
The Holy Bible...the word of God?
The much maligned Bible provided the basis for those taking the moral high ground. The words found therein provided a counterpoint to those who twist and use it for their own self interest. Those who were sincere in their faith (and are sincere in their faith) can come to an accurate viewpoint.
"To read in the Bible, as the word of God himself, that, "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,'' and to preach there-from that,''In the sweat of other mans faces shalt thou eat bread,'' to my mind can scarcely be reconciled with honest sincerity."-Abraham Lincoln
"In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it."-Abraham Lincoln
If, no one is a hundred percent good or one hundred percent bad, then you might want to reconsider where these tares are? Because they reside within you (individually and collectively), so you might not want to go around pointing your finger at others, as "the humble or haughty sheep?" Which appears to be the trademark of the Jehovah Witnesses and/or extreme fundamentalists. *Along with their eternal damnation theologies and HELL DOCTRINES.
*(You might not find it, so glorious for that of yourselves with your haughty doctrines.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me
Jehovah's Witnesses do not have a "Hell Doctrine."
We believe that when you die there is nothing that survives death. Rather, man's hope is in the resurrection. It's what many ancient Hebrews including Jesus believed.
It is generally believed by all of Christiamism (including that of Jehovah Witnesses) that HELL is considered to be the Lake of fire. Where there is endless suffering or complete extinction of individuals. In addition, I have personally heard Jehovah Witnesses' tell their children or other family members that they will be destroyed in HELL, if they fall away from the Jehovah Witness Organizations views. Which is merely a fear tactic! Although, not all witnesses believe the exact same things - if they are honest with themselves.
It is generally believed by all of Christiamism (including that of Jehovah Witnesses) that HELL is considered to be the Lake of fire. Where there is endless suffering or complete extinction of individuals. In addition, I have personally heard Jehovah Witnesses' tell their children or other family members that they will be destroyed in HELL, if they fall away from the Jehovah Witness Organizations views. Which is merely a fear tactic! Although, not all witnesses believe the exact same things - if they are honest with themselves.
There can be few indicators more obvious that something is NOT from God or Jesus than the Godfather "OR ELSE" threat, Jer. Our Father God does not need to threaten anyone for any reason, let alone to love Him. That is such a preposterously primitive and savage human idea that its acceptance for so many millennia is beyond my comprehension.
It is generally believed by all of Christiamism (including that of Jehovah Witnesses) that HELL is considered to be the Lake of fire. Where there is endless suffering or complete extinction of individuals. In addition, I have personally heard Jehovah Witnesses' tell their children or other family members that they will be destroyed in HELL, if they fall away from the Jehovah Witness Organizations views. Which is merely a fear tactic! Although, not all witnesses believe the exact same things - if they are honest with themselves.
Although we are not uniform we are united in our beliefs. Beliefs which have support in the Bible. Our beliefs are on our website and completely open to the public...
"Death. People who die pass out of existence. (Psalm 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:​5, 10) They do not suffer in a fiery hell of torment."-JW.org
The lake of fire is the second death. That is what Jesus talked about in Mark 9:48,49. The earliest copies of the Bible containing Mark 9:48,49 show Jesus used the word Gehenna. A widely used Bible translation, KJV, was produced at a time without the benefit of subsequent discoveries of earlier copies of the Bible. That's why some Bible translations use hell when they should use gehenna, sheol or hades.
This is what the lake of fire means:
"And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death,the lake of fire." -Revelation 20:14
Clearly death and the grave are "conditions." They can't be made to suffer. People who are subject to the second death also do not suffer.
Its not a fear tactic. Atheists do not fear death because they know death is the end of their conscience existence. People who have faith in Christ and love God also do not fear death because of the resurrection.
There can be few indicators more obvious that something is NOT from God or Jesus than the Godfather "OR ELSE" threat, Jer. Our Father God does not need to threaten anyone for any reason, let alone to love Him. That is such a preposterously primitive and savage human idea that its acceptance for so many millennia is beyond my comprehension.
See post #527
As a JW I take to heart what God and Christ teach us
"so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous."- Matthew 5:45
Love for God is not based on morbid fear (eg do what I tell you or else face eternal punishment). It's not based on thinking that God will protect a worshipper in contrast to those who don't worship him. We all benefit from the rain and sun but we can all be affected by natural disasters, wars, pandemics, etc. Rather, love for God means that we take a look around and see the beauty of our world...of creation...babies, dogs, kittens, forests vistas, its endless. We see his love by the words we find in the Bible. the Beatitudes are an inspiration that religious and non religious can benefit from as well as the fruitage of the spirit Paul talks about in Galatians. And we also meditate on the fact that sending Jesus was the ultimate manifestation of that love because we have a resurrection hope not only for ourselves but others.
So as a Jehovah's Witness if I come to accept that I have free will to make any choices I want in life yet I willingly choose to refrain from making certain choices because I've come to love God... it's not primitive nor savage to align my life with what pleases God.
Although we are not uniform we are united in our beliefs. Beliefs which have support in the Bible. Our beliefs are on our website and completely open to the public...
"Death. People who die pass out of existence. (Psalm 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:​5, 10) They do not suffer in a fiery hell of torment."-JW.org
The lake of fire is the second death. That is what Jesus talked about in Mark 9:48,49. The earliest copies of the Bible containing Mark 9:48,49 show Jesus used the word Gehenna. A widely used Bible translation, KJV, was produced at a time without the benefit of subsequent discoveries of earlier copies of the Bible. That's why some Bible translations use hell when they should use gehenna, sheol or hades.
This is what the lake of fire means:
"And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death,the lake of fire." -Revelation 20:14
Clearly death and the grave are "conditions." They can't be made to suffer. People who are subject to the second death also do not suffer.
Its not a fear tactic. Atheists do not fear death because they know death is the end of their conscience existence. People who have faith in Christ and love God also do not fear death because of the resurrection.
If death is hurled into this Lake of fire. How is it the second death, if it is not the death of death, itself?
And, yes, it is used as a fear tactic within a religious hierarchy to intimidate the fearful and unbelieving.
if death is hurled into this lake of fire. How is it the second death, if it is not the death of death, itself?
Read the verse. The Scripture does not say death is the lake of fire.
Ask yourself. Why does one end up in hades (sheol)? Who are found in hades?
Quote:
and, yes, it is used as a fear tactic within a religious hierarchy to intimidate the fearful and unbelieving.
I can agree that hell fire has been used as a fear tactic. But for those like myself who find little Biblical support for it it's not something we fear.
Last edited by mensaguy; 09-21-2021 at 07:54 PM..
Reason: Fixed quote
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
