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It is not so much patience, Jer. I believe JBF has the requisite knowledge of the Bible to see that the DOMINANT context of those who interpreted scripture was of a wrathful God. He is just not willing to risk changing that context. Even Jesus as God in the flesh was insufficient to remove that automatic context. For those indoctrinated to fear God and damnation, it is extremely difficult to risk changing that context.
That is why it was especially useful in controlling the primitive masses and amassing power over them. If JBF could only be convinced to see the scriptures through the lens of Jesus Christ on the Cross and His agape love and forgiveness, he would be an awesome evangel of Christ instead of His adversary.
Further illustration of what has driven away the "loving Christians".
When you say that we are merely pawns that believe the message used only to control primitive masses, and then the peanut gallery of those applauding you jump in, it's easy to see why those people who are incapable or unwilling to counter you have simply left. So you label the rest of us as "unloving".
Further illustration of what has driven away the "loving Christians".
When you say that we are merely pawns that believe the message used only to control primitive masses, and then the peanut gallery of those applauding you jump in, it's easy to see why those people who are incapable or unwilling to counter you have simply left. So you label the rest of us as "unloving".
One thing is for certain, you are not the most accurate reporter.
" Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"-Matthew 34,35
I wasn't born and raised a Jehovah's Witness but I am now. However, my understanding of that Scripture hasn't changed and I agree as you do that it is NOT saying we ought not to love our family. Rather, there will be family members who will oppose one's attempt to be a disciple of Christ.
I want to add there is no "liking" a Scripture, in the sense of being gleeful or self righteous, when the topic concerns family relationships or loss of a spiritual relationship we once had.
From the Watchtower website:
2 However, God’s time to bring about complete peace has not yet come. These critical last days are filled with conflict, and countless people have contentious attitudes. (2 Tim. 3:1-4) As Christians, we must wage a spiritual war against Satan and the false teachings that he promotes. (2 Cor. 10:4, 5) But the greatest threat to our peace may come from unbelieving relatives. Some might ridicule our beliefs, accuse us of dividing the family, or threaten to disown us unless we give up our faith. How should we view family opposition? How can we successfully deal with the challenges it brings?
Were you disowned by your Cathopilc family for apostasy because you left The Church? My mom converted from Catholic to JW 50 years ago and no one shunned her.
Debbie Wilcox
5 years ago
This is precisely the reason I left. I'd rather be a good mother and show love towards my disfellowshipped daughter than be a good Jehovah's Witness and turn my back on my own flesh and blood. No way, not this mom!
One of the guys on a board I used to go to left after his daughter was Dfed. He and his wife could not reconcile that their daughter being murdered at Armageddon as divine justice.
One of the three girls I grew up with left in her 40s after the elders insisted she shuns her daughter because her daughter had started dating a worldly man.
2 However, God’s time to bring about complete peace has not yet come. These critical last days are filled with conflict, and countless people have contentious attitudes. (2 Tim. 3:1-4) As Christians, we must wage a spiritual war against Satan and the false teachings that he promotes. (2 Cor. 10:4, 5) But the greatest threat to our peace may come from unbelieving relatives. Some might ridicule our beliefs, accuse us of dividing the family, or threaten to disown us unless we give up our faith. How should we view family opposition? How can we successfully deal with the challenges it brings?
Wow, L8! I watched that whole video and found it to be absolutely heartbreaking! What blew my mind, other than the strong rhetoric encouraging JWs to turn their backs on their family members, was the notion that if a person leaves the JWs, they are leaving God. That's just so over-the-top crazy!
I'm assuming the last sentence that appeared on the screen did not come from the JWs but from people who are trying to expose the problem. I hope everybody who watched the video noticed it. For those who didn't, it said, "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." This is such an obvious thing that I can simply can't see how JWs don't see it. How can anyone listen to their own conscience and follow those instructions?
Further illustration of what has driven away the "loving Christians".
When you say that we are merely pawns that believe the message used only to control primitive masses, and then the peanut gallery of those applauding you jump in, it's easy to see why those people who are incapable or unwilling to counter you have simply left. So you label the rest of us as "unloving".
You really need to stop putting words in the mouths of others and lying about them, BF. I called no one pawns and the message WAS used to control and subjugate the masses as the many evil exercises of Church power have demonstrated over the millennia.
There can be many reasons why people fail to see the truth of it that have nothing to do with being pawns. My views PROMOTE the agape love of God in place of the dominant wrath and damnation message, so if that drove the loving Christians away, I am puzzled as to why.
Wow, L8! I watched that whole video and found it to be absolutely heartbreaking! What blew my mind, other than the strong rhetoric encouraging JWs to turn their backs on their family members, was the notion that if a person leaves the JWs, they are leaving God. That's just so over-the-top crazy!
I'm assuming the last sentence that appeared on the screen did not come from the JWs but from people who are trying to expose the problem. I hope everybody who watched the video noticed it. For those who didn't, it said, "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." This is such an obvious thing that I can simply can't see how JWs don't see it. How can anyone listen to their own conscience and follow those instructions?
Thanks Katz. They can understand it wrong when someone from another religion does it but they can't understand it's wrong when they are asked to do it.
Thanks Katz. They can understand it wrong when someone from another religion does it but they can't understand it's wrong when they are asked to do it.
That is just so, so tragic. And I'm assuming that if your mothing is still living, this is still her attitude towards you?
Thanks Katz. They can understand it wrong when someone from another religion does it but they can't understand it's wrong when they are asked to do it.
Everything I have learned about the JW organization convinces me that the agape love of Christ is nowhere to be found in it!
Wow, L8! I watched that whole video and found it to be absolutely heartbreaking! What blew my mind, other than the strong rhetoric encouraging JWs to turn their backs on their family members, was the notion that if a person leaves the JWs, they are leaving God. That's just so over-the-top crazy!
I'm assuming the last sentence that appeared on the screen did not come from the JWs but from people who are trying to expose the problem. I hope everybody who watched the video noticed it. For those who didn't, it said, "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family." This is such an obvious thing that I can simply can't see how JWs don't see it. How can anyone listen to their own conscience and follow those instructions?
There is a name for it, but I have to refrain from using it.
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