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The entire purpose of biblical doctrine and church is for folks to live a Holy,righteous, loving life, centered on Jesus Christ. I know many Catholics that do so. In this area I must say that Catholism is Christian. It has man made traditions infused into it.What Christian sect does not? Grace is imputed not really infused.
I do not see though that the Catholic church is the one true Church. This is entirely wrong.
Ultimately, its how we live our lives that matters. I mean we are not going to be given a doctrinal examination upon death. It's what we yielded to in our lives like Romans 6:16 says.
Rom 6:16* Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?*
It's not being ignored. It's being seen as an option; not something 'essential'.
I suggest you're seeing what you want to see. The language makes it clear. Must be makes it not optional and therefore, something essential. Same for deacons. Deacons must be husbands of one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.
When God told Noah to build the ark an told him to make it out of gopher wood, was that optional? He didn't even say must.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57
This is all fine and dandy...IF he's married.
As I asked in my previous post, what evidence do we have that ALL of the Apostles were married with families?
Not necessary to know. We have the qualifications spelled out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57
And you know this...how?
It's missing from his argument. It applies to all brethren.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57
They're not going against any passage, nor are they 'binding' celibacy on the clergy. Men who enter the clergy are FULLY AWARE of what would be expected of them BEFORE they become ordained.
By the way...there have been and currently are some Catholic priests who are married...with families.
I was unaware the vow of celibacy had CHANGED. I'm not RCC so I don't keep up with the ever changing rules. If they can marry, why do I still hear about priest sexually abusing others.
The entire purpose of biblical doctrine and church is for folks to live a Holy,righteous, loving life, centered on Jesus Christ. I know many Catholics that do so. In this area I must say that Catholism is Christian. It has man made traditions infused into it.What Christian sect does not? Grace is imputed not really infused.
I do not see though that the Catholic church is the one true Church. This is entirely wrong.
Ultimately, its how we live our lives that matters. I mean we are not going to be given a doctrinal examination upon death. It's what we yielded to in our lives like Romans 6:16 says.
Rom 6:16* Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?*
Lot of truth there. Might I suggest we in essence are going to be given a doctrinal exam upon death. The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day.
To live a Holy, righteous, loving life, centered on Jesus Christ is one following His word.
We can't choose which "church" we like better. We have to follow Jesus and we will be in His church. All these "churches" proclaim different conflicting things. They can't all be right and I would suggest MOST are not right. We are only right when we follow God's word, as written not as we see it.
Lot of truth there. Might I suggest we in essence are going to be given a doctrinal exam upon death. The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day.
To live a Holy, righteous, loving life, centered on Jesus Christ is one following His word.
We can't choose which "church" we like better. We have to follow Jesus and we will be in His church. All these "churches" proclaim different conflicting things. They can't all be right and I would suggest MOST are not right. We are only right when we follow God's word, as written not as we see it.
You have misidentified the written word as the Word of God instead of Jesus so you are NOT following Jesus who is the ONE AND ONLY Word of God (Logos). The stupid translation of Logos as "word" simply misled billions over the centuries to follow the written words of the Bible as if they were the Word of God (Logos).
The words "written in ink" are not. They are inspired by God but interpreted by flawed and fallible MEN! Only Jesus reflects the Holy Spirit of God. His "mind of Christ" is what we should use as our guide to what God has "written in our hearts" with agape love when reading the scriptures to understand what they actually were intended to communicate spiritually!
It's not being ignored. It's being seen as an option; not something 'essential'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbosixx
I suggest you're seeing what you want to see. The language makes it clear. Must be makes it not optional and therefore, something essential. Same for deacons. [i]Deacons must be husbands of one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.
Your understanding/interpretation of this passage is novel and strange and is not how the Church has always understood it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbosixx
I was unaware the vow of celibacy had CHANGED. I'm not RCC so I don't keep up with the ever changing rules. If they can marry, why do I still hear about priest sexually abusing others.
Catholic priests in the Latin/Roman rite do normally take vows of celibacy. However, exceptions are sometimes made for a man who is already married who wants to enter the priesthood.
In other rites of the Catholic Church, priestly celibacy is not the norm and most of their priests are married.
If a Catholic priest is married and his wife dies, he is not permitted to re-marry due to the requirement to be the husband of one wife.
Your understanding/interpretation of this passage is novel and strange and is not how the Church has always understood it.
Catholic priests in the Latin/Roman rite do normally take vows of celibacy. However, exceptions are sometimes made for a man who is already married who wants to enter the priesthood.
In other rites of the Catholic Church, priestly celibacy is not the norm and most of their priests are married.
If a Catholic priest is married and his wife dies, he is not permitted to re-marry due to the requirement to be the husband of one wife.
If anyone here likes to read and would enjoy a peek into a part of the Vatican not normally seen, try the novel, The Fifth Gospel, by Ian Caldwell. The story is centered on the mysterious death of a man who is trying to prove the validity of the Shroud of Turin. Involved in the case are two brothers, one a Greek Catholic priest, estranged from his wife and living in the vatican with his young son, and his brother, a Roman Catholic priest.
I suggest you're seeing what you want to see. The language makes it clear. Must be makes it not optional and therefore, something essential. Same for deacons. Deacons must be husbands of one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.
When God told Noah to build the ark an told him to make it out of gopher wood, was that optional? He didn't even say must.
Not necessary to know. We have the qualifications spelled out.
It's missing from his argument. It applies to all brethren.
I was unaware the vow of celibacy had CHANGED. I'm not RCC so I don't keep up with the ever changing rules. If they can marry, why do I still hear about priest sexually abusing others.
I would have responded to your post the same way Mike did, so I won't repeat what he said.
As for the bolded...
Being married or not has nothing to do with whether or not anyone will sexually abuse others...or whether or not anyone is a priest. There are several proposed theories about this, and one of those theories states that it's a pedophile who becomes a priest; not a priest who becomes a pedophile.
You have misidentified the written word as the Word of God instead of Jesus so you are NOT following Jesus who is the ONE AND ONLY Word of God (Logos). The stupid translation of Logos as "word" simply misled billions over the centuries to follow the written words of the Bible as if they were the Word of God (Logos).
It's my understanding that God has always done the speaking and in the last days spoken thru Christ.
Heb. 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The words "written in ink" are not. They are inspired by God but interpreted by flawed and fallible MEN! Only Jesus reflects the Holy Spirit of God. His "mind of Christ" is what we should use as our guide to what God has "written in our hearts" with agape love when reading the scriptures to understand what they actually were intended to communicate spiritually!
If I understand you correctly, the words written in ink are inspired by God but interpreted by man. I would disagree. I have faith and trust that God has given us His word as he intended. 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
The problem comes in when man uses his heart to interpret God's word. Oh so many people claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit yet believe contradicting doctrines.
I would have responded to your post the same way Mike did, so I won't repeat what he said.
As for the bolded...
Being married or not has nothing to do with whether or not anyone will sexually abuse others...or whether or not anyone is a priest. There are several proposed theories about this, and one of those theories states that it's a pedophile who becomes a priest; not a priest who becomes a pedophile.
Yes. Despite all the horror stories, it is good to remember fewer than 1% of Catholic priests have been accused.of pedophilia. Unfortunately, a church, like a school or a sports club or scout troops, is a place where a pedophile will go to seek access to children. The outcry was that the Church organization covered it up.
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