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As a former Catholic, this verse hits close to home. Priests are forbidden from marriage and on Fridays Catholics are supposed to abstain from meat.
1 Timothy 4
English Standard Version
Some Will Depart from the Faith
4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.
But not all Catholic Priests are forbidden to marry. I know a married Catholic priest myself. And if the current fasting rules are problematic, the fasting rules of the Apostolic age were far more draconian. These were the rules of those who lived and walked with Christ personally. Surely that's not what Paul meant in the 1 Timothy passage.
We fast precisely *because* food is good. Priests are celibate *because* marriage is good; but of course as Paul teaches, celibacy is better.
It's my view that Catholics and everyone of any faith or no faith will be saved eventually by God. It's not my intention to persuade anyone here to be a Catholic or to be something else. My intention was to share with others here my reasoning for leaving the church. I just don't believe that it is the actual church of Christ here on Earth, at least not anymore. With that said, there are many, MANY, Godly Catholics that are amazing followers of Christ and I happen to know some of them.
My intention was to share with others here my reasoning for leaving the church. I just don't believe that it is the actual church of Christ here on Earth, at least not anymore.
So I ask you again:
Where today can we find the church founded by Christ? Does it exist?
If we believe in Christ's promise that the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church, surely it must be somewhere, right?
I’m not sure what three questions you’re referring to, but I’m never too busy to have a discussion about God’s word. But please bear with me as this post may be rather long. I pray you take the time to read it as I spent a lot of time writing it.
In verse 8, Paul makes his point clear. The gifts the church at Corinth are dividing and arguing over are going to end. Prophecies would pass away. The speaking in various languages (tongues) would stop. The gifts of knowledge would cease. He also says LOVE would not disappear.
Keep in mind the purpose of these gifts. They were used to reveal the will of God to His people.
I agree with you that when Paul wrote 1 Corinthians, the perfect or complete had not come. He makes that clear when he writes, “But when that which is perfect is come.”
The questions becomes what is the perfect that is to come? What was the part that was to be done away? Why are these gifts going to cease?
In verse 9 we read, “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.” The Greek word for part is meros. It means portion. This says to me that the knowledge Paul had of God’s will was not complete. What he prophesied was not complete. He had only a portion of God’s will. Piece by piece he is receiving knowledge from God.
Since the partial is referring to the limited knowledge and information the Christians had in the first century through the spiritual gifts, the most natural understanding of “the perfect” is a time when that knowledge would be complete and no longer limited.
In verse 11 Paul describes these spiritual gifts as “elementary ways” or “childish ways.” Paul is making a point that a more mature way is coming. Paul and the Corinthian Christians were living in a time of limited knowledge and understanding. But the perfect and mature was coming so that these gifts would be set aside and no longer necessary.
In verse 12, Paul describes their current condition of knowledge as seeing in a mirror dimly. Mirrors in the first century were not like mirrors today. Their mirrors were not made from glass. They saw dimly in the metal they were looking at. But when the perfect would come, Christians will be able to see so clearly that it will be like seeing face to face.
Paul continues in verse 12, “Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.”
Knowledge could only be received partially. God’s new covenant was being revealed a piece at a time. Paul was moved by the Holy Spirit to write Ephesians. Peter was moved by the Spirit to write his two letters. James was moved by the Spirit to write his letter. John would write his three letters as the Spirit moved him. Living in the first century was a time when God’s will was being revealed a little bit at a time. But Paul pictures a time when that will no longer happen. When the full revelation of God came, Paul says he will know fully.
Once God revealed his word and will to his apostles and prophets, these spiritual gifts that Paul is writing about would no longer be necessary. Those gifts were revealing the knowledge of God. But once the apostles and prophets wrote God’s words down, continued revelation would be unnecessary. So only three things would remain once the full revelation of God came: faith, hope, and love.
Beautifully said and I agree. However, God's knew covenant, which was being revealed a piece at a time, will continued to be revealed until Christ returns. Only then will Christians see clearly, for we will be face to face.
God told his prophet Amos there would be periods of time without revelation, and compared this absence of revelation to a famine in the land.
Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord."
Jesus built His church's organization on a foundation of apostles and prophets. They were a quorum of twelve men who received revelation to guide His church. (Ephesians 2:19-21)
The church needs apostles and prophets until Christians can see as clearly as when we are face to face with the Lord. In other words, when we really come to a unity of the faith.
Ephesians 4:11"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men."
The rock on which Jesus built His church was not Peter, but on revelation. Peter was blessed with the keys of the Kingdom because he received his knowledge by revelation from the Father.
Matthew 16:17"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."
Here's something to think about: If Jesus were to sit/stand next to you right now in physical human form, do you genuinely think that He would agree with you if you said "The Catholic Church is the church You built"?
Do you think Jesus would say "The Catholic Church is the Church I built for everyone"?
What Jesus build and taught versus what religious leaders teach and say Jesus built. Do you think Jesus would approve of everything religious leaders preach on a weekly basis?
Where today can we find the church founded by Christ? Does it exist?
If we believe in Christ's promise that the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church, surely it must be somewhere, right?
For one denomination to say that THEIR members are of Jesus's church and members of all other churches are NOT is, I believe, inaccurate.
It is my belief that the member of Jesus's church are those that recognize him as God, our savior, and who strive to follow the narrow path that he prescribed by following his commandments and by also loving one another. People who believe and do those things are, I believe, Jesus's church. They have built a foundation on Christ, our rock. In the end, all believers will be tested by fire and those whose works survive the fire will receive rewards. Others, including non-Christians will, I believe, also be saved but only through the purifying, restorative, process of fire and sulphur as described in the Bible.
1 Corinthians 3:15, ESV: If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
Revelation 21:8 ESV
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
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