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It's all in the interpretation. "church" today vs "church" pre 100AD ?
They were Jews who went to Temple and Synagogue.
Jesus didn't tell people to stop being Jews; Paul did.
And I think, based on Paul's ideas, that a new organized Church did arise for Christians.
But that was post Jesus' death.
Jesus explicitly spoke about a "New Covenant/Testament". He could only foreshadow these things because the New Creation was not ushered in until His death and resurrection.
What sense would it make for Jesus to speak like Paul when the Old Covenant had not yet been completed?
Jesus explicitly spoke about a "New Covenant/Testament". He could only foreshadow these things because the New Creation was not ushered in until His death and resurrection.
What sense would it make for Jesus to speak like Paul when the Old Covenant had not yet been completed?
Well he could have done it during his time of resurrection to his Apostles.
Paul came into the picture 15 years after his death (approx).
I believe there is more than one Christian road to heaven and respect your Catholic beliefs.
Well he could have done it during his time of resurrection to his Apostles.
Paul came into the picture 15 years after his death (approx).
I believe there is more than one Christian road to heaven and respect your Catholic beliefs.
At the end of Luke and beginning of Acts, we learn that Jesus spent much time with His disciples during those 40 days between His Resurrection and Ascension; that He "opened their minds to understand the Scriptures" and "[spoke] about the kingdom of God".
Jesus taught His disciples the entire deposit of Faith and entrusted it to them, for them to pass on to their successors.
Historically, popes have done much worse things than kissing books. Nobody is guaranteed moral uprightness or perfect prudence, even a pope. John Paul II has already faced the judgment seat of Christ and has answered for his every action and deed, as we all one day will.
How do you square that with Christ's promise to Peter in Matthew 16:18 that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church?
It's evident to me that the church that Peter founded in Rome was, at some point, hijacked and it morphed into something else. I'm not saying that Pope John Paul II was a bad man but he demonstrated to me that the Pope is not some sort of "special representative" of Christ or anything of the sort, as the RCC portends that he is. There is ZERO chance that Jesus would have kissed a book that says that he is NOT the way to eternal life. That the Pope embraced and exalted that book of lies by kissing it showed me that he lacks discernment.
The RCC teaches and embraces things never taught by Jesus nor the apostles. The RCC is NOT the true church of Christ. After all, the Bible tells us to not be "of the world" and the RCC is DEFINITELY "of the world". They're the only faith system recognized by the world as its own nation.
As a former Catholic, this verse hits close to home. Priests are forbidden from marriage and on Fridays Catholics are supposed to abstain from meat.
1 Timothy 4
English Standard Version
Some Will Depart from the Faith
4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.
Here are several verses about not adding to the teachings of scripture.
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
Revelation 22:18
You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I am commanding you.
Deuteronomy 4:2
¶Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words Or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.
Proverbs 30:5*-‬6
And the following verse says that all scripture is inspired by God. It seems to me that God's word should be sufficient. Evidently, the RCC believes that God's words were incomplete and insufficient and so they had to add all sorts of new beliefs and practices.
All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16*-‬17
It's evident to me that the church that Peter founded in Rome was, at some point, hijacked and it morphed into something else. I'm not saying that Pope John Paul II was a bad man but he demonstrated to me that the Pope is not some sort of "special representative" of Christ or anything of the sort, as the RCC portends that he is. There is ZERO chance that Jesus would have kissed a book that says that he is NOT the way to eternal life. That the Pope embraced and exalted that book of lies by kissing it showed me that he lacks discernment.
But as I said, popes are not guaranteed perfect discernment. I'm not interested in defending the actions of John Paul II or any Pope. They are accountable to God for their own actions and don't need me to judge them.
A representative of Jesus Christ is still a fallen human being with concupiscence, subject to sin and the Fall just like the rest of us. We don't look to the pope to save us, but to Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Struggling Christian
The RCC teaches and embraces things never taught by Jesus nor the apostles.
Please give an example, and also explain how it is that you know Jesus and the Apostles didn't teach it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Struggling Christian
The RCC is NOT the true church of Christ. After all, the Bible tells us to not be "of the world" and the RCC is DEFINITELY "of the world".
They're the only faith system recognized by the world as its own nation.
Where today can we find the church founded by Christ? Does it exist?
As for the Vatican being a sovereign state; that is an accident of history (some such as myself would say a happy accident), and certainly a providential one for better or worse. The Vatican has not always been a sovereign state and may cease to be at some point. That has no bearing on whether or not the Catholic Church is the True Church.
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