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Member has made his intention(s) clear in the previous post. There is to be absolutely NO bashing of Mormonism. If you wish to include Mormonism in a post, it MUST be respectful, or it WILL be infracted....Kindly refer to Sticky at the top of the forum. --Just asking that you all keep it respectful, folks!
(Before you flame this post too much, please note it is drenched in irony, but the non-sarcastic take-home message would be Mormons actually base a significant portion of their religion on the idea that Christ visited the Native Americans.)
it seems you can lead a donkey to water but you can't make them drink!
You might should reread what I wrote because I didn't need to ask a mormon , maybe because I know ancient north american history from my grandma's .... but I have no doubt you both should ask someone. but stay away of the liberal arts of old farts institutions of insanity! They can only get more confused.. you will find nothing there that anyone needs to know. to think they are paid from public coffers to profess their ignorance ... what a gig. modern education is just a continuation of colonialism of our history , our minds and our DNA.
Would you mind explaining your belief in this regard? The ones who never heard are resurrected? Does that mean the ones who did hear don't?
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1. All those who never heard of Jesus including a few billion Chinese as an example and have died fit:
Acts 24:15 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
BBE Acts 24:15 Hoping in God for that which they themselves are looking for, that there will be a coming back from the dead for upright men and wrongdoers.
NRS Acts 24:15 I have a hope in God-- a hope that they themselves also accept-- that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.
The terms in Greek mean.
a. Righteous are those who have heard and responded
b. unjust.unrighteous/wrongdoers are those who never heard and cannot know God's will so they did not live according to it.
c. Those who heard and did not live by it are not included in the above verse.
This is a "hope" for BOTH groups and covers such as the Indians, Chinese and others who never heard about Jesus or God.
2. Those who have the opportunity today and reject it "may" be in line for a resurrection if they have died or die before the "End".
3. Those who are alive at the End, "Armageddon", will all have had a chance and if they reject it, they will die with no resurrection.
you know that jews always claimed natives were jews right .... well they have it backwards! they are 1/2 US but with different father clans .. they came from US from the same roots as native Americans.. .. not the other way around. We did not come from them they came from us .
Well I don't know what anyone else believes, but it was not said that Adam was a red man for nothing, nor were the different colors of skins on top of the ark of the covenant when it traveled for nothing. IMO, all men came from the adamah. Peace
1. All those who never heard of Jesus including a few billion Chinese as an example and have died fit:
Acts 24:15 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
BBE Acts 24:15 Hoping in God for that which they themselves are looking for, that there will be a coming back from the dead for upright men and wrongdoers.
NRS Acts 24:15 I have a hope in God-- a hope that they themselves also accept-- that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.
The terms in Greek mean.
a. Righteous are those who have heard and responded
b. unjust.unrighteous/wrongdoers are those who never heard and cannot know God's will so they did not live according to it.
c. Those who heard and did not live by it are not included in the above verse.
This is a "hope" for BOTH groups and covers such as the Indians, Chinese and others who never heard about Jesus or God.
2. Those who have the opportunity today and reject it "may" be in line for a resurrection if they have died or die before the "End".
3. Those who are alive at the End, "Armageddon", will all have had a chance and if they reject it, they will die with no resurrection.
I love your response but I think I need to add somethings here you might want to read around the context of what Jesus is saying more deeply later .. remember when Jesus said to these folks "you do greatly err....... as concerning the resurrection of the dead ....... Abraham Isaac Jacob ..... God is God of the living not the dead " what if there is no resurrection of the living but they come with him , thus the righteous dead were those who were lawful to what they knew when living aka the ancient blood laws etc them having only to yield and bow to Him as he passes them ( when the fire comes ) as he was their Hope and part of their ancient prophesies and they believed in those prophecies or they didn't. They all know He comes in his fire and they all will be ready .... maybe like the verse you quoted says they are waiting for him also. they just don't know his current and legal , name yet. They know him as the promised one of a certain people and clan and as the son of the creator ( see preflooled Enoch concepts of him ) and no doubt they have their own name for him the son of God . the next question then becomes after the resurrection of the dead ( not the living ) that they have to Recognize him as
familiar to their souls / family and then choose Him over all other options and pretenders .
thus I give the option that he has been here working all along and he has been loving and faithful in all ages to all people through their ancient roots and prophesy . I think we will be glad and even surprised just how faithful He has been to all men with any kind of ears to hear and any sort of faith to believe ( like Abraham was ) but they all will know he is the son of the creator . I can't wait to speak to my ancestors about how he revealed himself to them. I have no doubt that those will be the great untold stories of the next age.
thus I give the option that he has been here working all along and he has been loving and faithful in all ages to all people through their ancient roots and prophesy . I think we will be glad and even surprised just how faithful He has been to all men with any kind of ears to hear and any sort of faith to believe but they all will know he is the son of the creator . I can't wait to speak to my ancestors about how he revealed himself to them. I have no doubt that those will be the great untold stories of the next age.
Not just a one-time deal though, Revelation is continuous for those open to it.
Not just a one-time deal though, Revelation is continuous for those open to it.
you can as open as you want......I think I disagree there is a great war coming. It is a continuation of the first war..( see Narmers palette and the great betrayal of the great kings with all the head lopping again ) and His Sukkah/clouds will come with fire ( then Joel's army later from them ) and people will have or will not have their Shadrach Meshiach and Abednego and Daniel on , or poof
an all new meaning to the phrase "up in smoke ! " everyone is going up in smoke if you step into a body on the other side is of the fire is the question !
see the book of Enoch youtube at about 49 to 57 minutes... poof 0f up in smoke ! He never promises to "save' anyone flesh ever , that was nor or has never been the deal . unless we trust him for our renewal and love not our own life .. he can't save us if we won't trust , because we don't believe him unless we take that leap and that leap hasn't got here yet , but it is coming. you can look back at the native people like in the amazon who had their people walk through all this stuff before they got to "heaven" which is his truth . well They are closer than the church is today. They will be as ready as anyone , while the church is thinking it floats away .. which is kind of truth because the windows of heaven and the cover the covers the nations will be open for awhile . maybe it makes moving mountains easier! He will renew all things but if someone is in the way he will remove them.
( truthfully the native people who were lawful but unsaved will be as ready or more ready than those alive and
"saved" now, only those who are "alive" and in him and in heaven now , are in a better situation. )
I love your response but I think I need to add somethings here you might want to read around the context of what Jesus is saying more deeply later .. remember when Jesus said to these folks "you do greatly err....... as concerning the resurrection of the dead ....... Abraham Isaac Jacob ..... God is God of the living not the dead " what if there is no resurrection of the living but they come with him , thus the righteous dead were those who were lawful to what they knew when living aka the ancient blood laws etc them having only to yield and bow to Him as he passes them ( when the fire comes ) as he was their Hope and part of their ancient prophesies and they believed in those prophecies or they didn't. They all know He comes in his fire and they all will be ready .... maybe like the verse you quoted says they are waiting for him also. they just don't know his current and legal , name yet. They know him as the promised one of a certain people and clan and as the son of the creator ( see preflooled Enoch concepts of him ) and no doubt they have their own name for him the son of God . the next question then becomes after the resurrection of the dead ( not the living ) that they have to Recognize him as
familiar to their souls / family and then choose Him over all other options and pretenders .
thus I give the option that he has been here working all along and he has been loving and faithful in all ages to all people through their ancient roots and prophesy . I think we will be glad and even surprised just how faithful He has been to all men with any kind of ears to hear and any sort of faith to believe ( like Abraham was ) but they all will know he is the son of the creator . I can't wait to speak to my ancestors about how he revealed himself to them. I have no doubt that those will be the great untold stories of the next age.
Hi,
Look at the verse about Abraham again. The verse in Matt does not cover the whole point.
Luke 20:37-38 37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. 38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Note what Jesus said of Lazarus:
KJV John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. ... 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Abraham could not be in heaven as we are told:
KJV John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
That is why Martha said of her brother Lazarus:
John 11:24-25 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jesus did not say she was wrong rather that she was right about the dead responding to his voice. He then proved it by calling Lazarus back from the ... dead, not the living.
Paul made a point about the dead 'in" Christ still being dead and awaiting the resurrection.
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
This would not be true if anyone had been resurrected to heaven before Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The dead sleep until that resurrection which had not occurred by Paul's day and was a future event. The dead do not know they are dead, as they "sleep". When asleep we do not know that time is passing. That is why we are told of the dead:
KJV Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Those who are dead are alive in God's memory, to Him, and await a resurrection, just as the Millions of people who never knew about God or His Son wait (With no knowledge they are dead) for the promised resurrection.
John 11:24-25 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jesus did not say she was wrong rather that she was right about the dead responding to his voice. He then proved it by calling Lazarus back from the ..
NO he is correcting her..
our "sleep" and our "dead" meaning of those words are correct only for our human( ignorant of God's power ) perspectives of "death" of "life" and the after " Life " life or death of body or the soul and death as a authority and power .
we do not know the power of God or the power( the authority ) of death for that matter .
there is no dead in Jesus to resurrect . we will be given a new flesh which will (a)rise.. but the soul of any person isn't dead of the righteous or unrighteous. but in him only is their life everlasting and at his side where he is after the body wastes away.
and the unrighteous are given over to the authority of death which we call hell but it probably isn't really hell.
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