Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think it really depends on what makes a city feel large to the individual. For you, it may be adjoined homes and businesses for blocks on end. That doesn't necessarily feel large to me, just dense. Philadelphia has never felt vastly larger than Atlanta or Houston to me. I have always said that Houston/Atlanta feel much larger from the freeways, while Philly feels larger from its neighborhoods. I agree there is much more continuous activity (foot traffic), but that still has nothing to do with the overall feel in terms of size IMO.
I think you do make some valid points and on the highways - this feel is probably also because of the development timing, much of the development in areas like a Atlanta or Houston is a result of the highways whereas many of the areas in a city like Philadelphia were developed prior to the highways, the highways were more retor fit, often away from the most developed areas. One highway area though to me would evidense the size differance would be I95 south from Bucks into center city, there is no urban landscape in either Atlanta or Houston that is consistently evidenced in a compact fashion for miles, or at least in the city sense
Thanks for the rep points, but why do you have to be all scared to post this in the thread?
I swear, the punk ash mentality on this site kills me (in a funny 'ha ha' way) sometimes.
The person that left you that rep message is from Philly/NJ area. FTR neither HOU or ATL are suburban, they have some suburban areas but they are developed also, imo somewhere in between old school urban and suburban
Ok, so going by your logic jacksonville is the most urban city in the country. Nyc, chicago, philly, Baltimore, Boston, DC.. sorry jacksonville got us beat.
Actually, Jacksonville is rather small, metro-wise, in terms urbanized area. As I've stated, Baltimore is closer to Jacksonville, urbanized area-wise, than it is to Atlanta.
Simply because Jacksonville is consolidated with Duval County does not make it a larger city. Urbanized areas, and the population therewithin, constitute how large a city is. Thus, Atlanta is much larger than Baltimroe on both accounts, whereas Baltimore is over double the population of Jacksonville, but only slightly bigger, in terms of urbanized area.
Actually, Jacksonville is rather small, metro-wise, in terms urbanized area. As I've stated, Baltimore is closer to Jacksonville, urbanized area-wise, than it is to Atlanta.
Simply because Jacksonville is consolidated with Duval County does not make it a larger city. Urbanized areas, and the population therewithin, constitute how large a city is. Thus, Atlanta is much larger than Baltimroe on both accounts, whereas Baltimore is over double the population of Jacksonville, but only slightly bigger, in terms of urbanized area.
So on continuously developed Urbanized area:
Jacksonville .9 million
Atlanta 4.9 million
Baltimore 6.2 Million (part of a continuously urbanized space)
Also for reference the UA of Atlanta covers 5,083 sq miles and the combined Baltimore/DC UA continuously developed covers 4,734 sq miles with 27% more population but yes Baltimore is closer to Jacksonville Maybe Cleveland or Denver or Seattle, not Jacksonville
The person that left you that rep message is from Philly/NJ area. FTR neither HOU or ATL are suburban, they have some suburban areas but they are developed also, imo somewhere in between old school urban and suburban
It's not that people are saying Houston or Atlanta are suburban. They are just suburban in nature. There's a difference. Most larger cities in the post WW2 era is suburban in nature. It does not meet the urban standards to urbanists from not only the rest of the nation. But from the rest of the world. There's nothing wrong with it either. You will find urbanity in Houston or Atlanta. Just not at the scale that you will find in Baltimore.
I see people posting pictures of downtown or midtown Atlanta. Those places are suppose to be urban. They were established well before WW2. But once you get into the neighborhoods, that's when Baltimore's urbanity becomes far superior to Atlanta's or Houston's. Now I am talking about the city limits, not the entire metros. When you do bring the entire metro's in, Houston and Atlanta starts to catch up to Baltimore in urbanity.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,994,819 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade
I see people posting pictures of downtown or midtown Atlanta. Those places are suppose to be urban. They were established well before WW2.
They were posted directly in response who literally said that "Downtown Atlanta" (both Downtown and Midtown) isn't urban, which is crazy thing to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade
But once you get into the neighborhoods, that's when Baltimore's urbanity becomes far superior to Atlanta's or Houston's. Now I am talking about the city limits, not the entire metros..
I'll give you that Baltimore has more classically urban hoods, but not the notion that the only thing urban about Atlanta is Downtown. Especially considering suburban is a function, not a look. I think if people really step back and look at it, they will truly understand this. For instance, it isn't uncommon to find block after block of neighborhoods in Baltimore that contain only rowhouses, ie completely residential. Likewise, it is not uncommon to find neighborhoods in Atlanta that contain block after block of shotgun houses, or craftsmen or row houses (we kind of like to skip about). The big difference being that you might occasionally encounter a tiny yard (gasp) or a bunch of trees (double gasp). This doesn't mean they are suburban as they function as urban neighborhoods. I can't speak for Houston, but go to any random neighborhood on the South or East sides of Atlanta proper and tell the kids hanging out on the corner they live in the suburbs. Then report back what they said after they stopped laughing at you.
It's not that people are saying Houston or Atlanta are suburban. They are just suburban in nature. There's a difference. Most larger cities in the post WW2 era is suburban in nature. It does not meet the urban standards to urbanists from not only the rest of the nation. But from the rest of the world. There's nothing wrong with it either. You will find urbanity in Houston or Atlanta. Just not at the scale that you will find in Baltimore.
I see people posting pictures of downtown or midtown Atlanta. Those places are suppose to be urban. They were established well before WW2. But once you get into the neighborhoods, that's when Baltimore's urbanity becomes far superior to Atlanta's or Houston's. Now I am talking about the city limits, not the entire metros. When you do bring the entire metro's in, Houston and Atlanta starts to catch up to Baltimore in urbanity.
No you missed my point, Stockton was a well regarded professor and he distinguished the difference among 4 eras of development. That waronxmas poster is wrong including Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis into the sunbelt generation.
First Era was mobility by foot traffic, narrow streets and foot trails, Boston, Philly, NY, Charleston, New Orleans, Pittsburgh grew around this development
Second Era was the streetcar system where it become dominant in Midwestern cities, it meant commonality that these cities were more spaced than first era cities. Chicago, Detroit, Minny, Cleveland grew up around this form of development which is why Midwestern cities do not characteristically resemble either sunbelt or compact NE cities.
Third Era was intercity roads where cities became even more spaced out and larger in area, cities like L.A, HOU, ATL, Dallas, came out of the result.
Fourth Era was the freeways, where new boomers are about as spaced out and low density as possible, OKC, Jacksonville, ABQ, S.D are examples of this development
this is a proven conceptual design theorem for how these cities developed, it is not the nature of HOU and ATL to be suburban but it is characteristics that show suburban traits mixed with urban traits. Stockton developed his theorem for city development pre-WWII
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Maybe Cleveland or Denver or Seattle, not Jacksonville
