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By my count 72% of those projects are in Downtown alone, which is pretty astonishing since LA is the poster child for polycentric multi-core metropolises. Change is afoot.
Yeah, it's pretty amazing. As a lifelong resident in his mid-30s, I still can't wrap my mind around a desirable DTLA.
What's even more amazing is the potential the it has for further growth. All it needs is to infill little by little.
Those Arts District residents who were taken aback by the size of the brand new One Santa Fe mixed-user (four acres) should get ready to really freak out, because a 14.6-acre site in the neighborhood just sold for $130 million
"Already, urban planners from China and Russia have arrived to see the project for themselves."
“The redevelopment of Tysons is the most important urban redevelopment in the country, possibly in the world,” says Christopher Leinberger, a professor at George Washington University and a senior fellow in the Brookings Institution’s Metropolitan Policy Program. “If they do this right, it’ll be the model. Just as it was the model of edge cities, it will be the model of the urbanization of the suburbs. It’s that big.”
Yeah I'm ready to grab the popcorn. Downtowners are generally pro-growth but there seem to be a lot of NIMBY folks in the Arts District who's heads are going to explode when they get a whiff of that development. I get it- they were pioneers living in warehouse lofts 20 years ago, but did they really think that the neighborhood would stay that way forever? That's...not how gentrification works lol.
"Already, urban planners from China and Russia have arrived to see the project for themselves."
“The redevelopment of Tysons is the most important urban redevelopment in the country, possibly in the world,” says Christopher Leinberger, a professor at George Washington University and a senior fellow in the Brookings Institution’s Metropolitan Policy Program. “If they do this right, it’ll be the model. Just as it was the model of edge cities, it will be the model of the urbanization of the suburbs. It’s that big.”
Sorry but Tyson's is a ****show. It doesn't matter how many towers they build; it will always have a suburban layout consisting of the intersection of several highways, interconnected by a series of shopping mall access roads.
There was a brief moment many years ago when they first started talking about redoing Tysons that I thought "wow-they're actually going to grid the streets and turn Tyson's into a downtown." They they released the finalized plans and admitted that the best they could do is grid the areas formed in the 4 quadrants of the Route 7/123 intersection, and build a circulator bus system to get people back and forth between them.
For my money, Reston Town Center is a much better attempt at creating a downtown for Northern Virginia, and better yet is the much more organically built-up Rosslyn/Balston Corridor. And yet neither of those even come close to the urbanism you get in DC proper.
Sorry but Tyson's is a ****show. It doesn't matter how many towers they build; it will always have a suburban layout consisting of the intersection of several highways, interconnected by a series of shopping mall access roads.
There was a brief moment many years ago when they first started talking about redoing Tysons that I thought "wow-they're actually going to grid the streets and turn Tyson's into a downtown." They they released the finalized plans and admitted that the best they could do is grid the areas formed in the 4 quadrants of the Route 7/123 intersection, and build a circulator bus system to get people back and forth between them.
For my money, Reston Town Center is a much better attempt at creating a downtown for Northern Virginia, and better yet is the much more organically built-up Rosslyn/Balston Corridor. And yet neither of those even come close to the urbanism you get in DC proper.
While I agree with what you wrote here I also feel like the Tysons project is something that is more than a step in the right direction for development (TOD especially) and is a model that can be utilized in many areas across the country where concentrated yet fragmented development already exists. KOP (can draw many historic similarities to Tysons) as an example if even partly embraced this type of development would be vastly improved and now as SEPTA is extending HR there is the time to embrace this type of planning - (wont happen though)
Sorry but Tyson's is a ****show. It doesn't matter how many towers they build; it will always have a suburban layout consisting of the intersection of several highways, interconnected by a series of shopping mall access roads.
There was a brief moment many years ago when they first started talking about redoing Tysons that I thought "wow-they're actually going to grid the streets and turn Tyson's into a downtown." They they released the finalized plans and admitted that the best they could do is grid the areas formed in the 4 quadrants of the Route 7/123 intersection, and build a circulator bus system to get people back and forth between them.
For my money, Reston Town Center is a much better attempt at creating a downtown for Northern Virginia, and better yet is the much more organically built-up Rosslyn/Balston Corridor. And yet neither of those even come close to the urbanism you get in DC proper.
Will it be D.C.? No, not even close. But neither will downtown Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, or Miami etc. etc. etc. etc. Just because those cities will never acheive the urbanity of D.C. because they were designed in a different era after the car came into the picture doesn't mean they can't become urban at a different intensity. For example, would you say someone who is 7'4 and someone who is 6'4 both are tall? I would say they are both tall, just at a different scale.
Tyson's Corner does have the potential to reach the urban level of downtown Dallas, Atlanta, or Houston etc. which all have highways that cut them even though it won't come close to D.C., Philly, Boston, or New York etc. etc. etc. Those sunbelt cities won't either though because of the constraints (highways) they have to work with. Tyson's Corner is no different and it can become urban on a sunbelt scale.
Will it be D.C.? No, not even close. But neither will downtown Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, or Miami etc. etc. etc. etc. Just because those cities will never acheive the urbanity of D.C. because they were designed in a different era after the car came into the picture doesn't mean they can't become urban at a different intensity. For example, would you say someone who is 7'4 and someone who is 6'4 both are tall? I would say they are both tall, just at a different scale.
Tyson's Corner does have the potential to reach the urban level of downtown Dallas, Atlanta, or Houston etc. which all have highways that cut them even though it won't come close to D.C., Philly, Boston, or New York etc. etc. etc. Those sunbelt cities won't either though because of the constraints (highways) they have to work with. Tyson's Corner is no different and it can become urban on a sunbelt scale.
Sorry but there's not a chance in hell of that happening. Not unless they removed Route 7, Route 123 and undergrounded the Silver line. Tysons has the bones of a suburban shopping mall district because that's how it started out. 50 years later you can't graft a downtown on top of that unless you started from scratch. It will have tall buildings for sure, but will it ever have truly urban pedestrian scale streets? Not a chance. Its a 100% car oriented place.
Last edited by DistrictDirt; 04-01-2015 at 08:49 AM..
Will it be D.C.? No, not even close. But neither will downtown Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, or Miami etc. etc. etc. etc. Just because those cities will never acheive the urbanity of D.C. because they were designed in a different era after the car came into the picture doesn't mean they can't become urban at a different intensity. For example, would you say someone who is 7'4 and someone who is 6'4 both are tall? I would say they are both tall, just at a different scale.
Tyson's Corner does have the potential to reach the urban level of downtown Dallas, Atlanta, or Houston etc. which all have highways that cut them even though it won't come close to D.C., Philly, Boston, or New York etc. etc. etc. Those sunbelt cities won't either though because of the constraints (highways) they have to work with. Tyson's Corner is no different and it can become urban on a sunbelt scale.
I'm not as familiar with downtown Houston, but I am familiar with Tyson's Corner and I'm also familiar with Downtown Dallas and Atlanta. I feel like the only person who could make this claim is someone who has been to neither. Dallas and Atlanta are sprawling cities. There's no question about it. But Downtown Dallas and Atlanta have urban cores (albeit smaller than what they should be) that there's NO WAY Tyson's Corner can match unless it experiences 100 years of rapid dense growth while Atlanta and Dallas stagnate. Tyson's Corner will never look like this or this. Both cities get ripped (rightfully so, in my opinion) for not having the density cities that size should have, but both have urban pockets downtown that are almost impossible to replicate when redeveloping an autocentric suburb. I wish the best for Tyson's Corner, but I think a lot of what you're saying is wishful thinking.
Sorry but there's not a chance in hell of that happening. Not unless they removed Route 7, Route 123 and undergrounded the Silver line. Tysons has the bones of a suburban shopping mall district because that's how it started out. 50 years later you can't graft a downtown on top of that unless you started from scratch. It will have tall buildings for sure, but will it ever have truly urban pedestrian scale streets? Not a chance. Its a 100% car oriented place.
Well, Route 7, Route 123, and I-495 in Tyson's Corner are the same highways that cut up:
Downtown Dallas = (75, 360, I-35, and I-30)
Downtown Houston = (59/I-69, I-10, I-45)
Downtown Atlanta = (402/I-20, 401/I-85)
Also, this isn't a competition about which will be more urban, it's about comparable urbanity. Philly, Boston, and D.C. have comparable urbanity, however, there is an order for which cities are "more" urban. The point I was making is Downtown Tyson's, Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas etc. will be in the same class of urbanity even though there will be an order for which are more urban than the other.
I'm not as familiar with downtown Houston, but I am familiar with Tyson's Corner and I'm also familiar with Downtown Dallas and Atlanta. I feel like the only person who could make this claim is someone who has been to neither. Dallas and Atlanta are sprawling cities. There's no question about it. But Downtown Dallas and Atlanta have urban cores (albeit smaller than what they should be) that there's NO WAY Tyson's Corner can match unless it experiences 100 years of rapid dense growth while Atlanta and Dallas stagnate. Tyson's Corner will never look like this or this. Both cities get ripped (rightfully so, in my opinion) for not having the density cities that size should have, but both have urban pockets downtown that are almost impossible to replicate when redeveloping an autocentric suburb. I wish the best for Tyson's Corner, but I think a lot of what you're saying is wishful thinking.
Whether Tyson's will be able to achieve what they're trying to do is up for debate, however, the actual approved master plan is an actual grid. The problem with this discussion is, people would have to actually see what they have approved for Tyson's to see the comparison at full build out in 2050 to have this debate. I will go try to find the background information for Tyson's so people are qualified to have this debate on street width, urban street grid, and connectivity between the planned Tyson's and Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston's grid.
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