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I think that those identifies districts are losing their importance as these communities integrate into Canadian society. Its nice for outsiders to have everything grouped together if they want to try out a new food, music, dress, etc...but it is really is not important to members to that community itself. Trust me a Tamil person in Toronto knows exactly where to go if they are looking to cook a meal at home or buy a Sari for an event.
I agree its not essential to have 'large' districts per se and I would have no doubt Sri Lankan's and Phillipino's wouldn't have a hard time finding ingredients to cook a meal or find a business suited to their needs - its just interesting that these groups as large as they are don't have districts like Chinatown/L'il Italy/Koreatown etc - i'd say the later 3 groups are as integrated into Canadian society as an other ethnicity save for wasp's who've been here generation upon generation yet they still have their 'districts'
To be fair, neither Toronto or London have done a commendable job of integrating the South Asian communities. They make up one of the largest poverty groups in both cities.
I agree its not essential to have 'large' districts per se and I would have no doubt Sri Lankan's and Phillipino's wouldn't have a hard time finding ingredients to cook a meal or find a business suited to their needs - its just interesting that these groups as large as they are don't have districts like Chinatown/L'il Italy/Koreatown etc - i'd say the later 3 groups are as integrated into Canadian society as an other ethnicity save for wasp's who've been here generation upon generation yet they still have their 'districts'
I think it is more a case of following when the immigration waves happened for each of those groups. Those districts were formed out of necessity, at a time where newcomers had to huddle together to survive. That is not the case anymore as the communities are much more spread out and integrated.
These concentrations still happen, but are no longer defined. For example Bathurst and Wilson is probably Toronto's Little Manila, but does not have that official tag from the city. There is really no reason for them to define themselves as everyone knows where to go.
To be fair to London and Toronto - I think both cities take in more South Asians than pretty much any U.S city.. I think if you look - the more you take in the more of of a distribution you will get. As per your link 7/10 immigrants to Canada living in poverty have been here less than 5 years! Its also a two way street in terms of integration, both the society and the citizen need to work on that - its not just a one way street. I think U.S immigration policy is different than Canada's - its not an apples to apples comparison and i'm not disagreeing that more can be done, but the Q.O.L is still vastly better than the homeland.
Anyway, there are plenty of South Indians in the GTA not living in poverty and these individuals typically have lived here longer.
The goal should never be to give someone a better life than where they came from, it should be to make sure that person reaches their full potential and on par with someone that is native born. Quite a few of these newcomers are highly educated and can contribute alot more to society than they are allowed. Foreign credentials and experience are not held in the same esteem. This is the case to varying degrees in the US, UK and Canada. So yes, there is a ton more that can be done.
This includes South Asian (Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Sri Lankan, etc.), East Asian (Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc.) and Southeast Asian (Filipino, Vietnamese, etc.).
For the hard numbers, as of 2011, the Toronto CMA had 1,767,100 Asians (excluding "West Asians"- who'd be classified as white in the US) out of a population of 5,521235, for an Asian percentage of ~32.0%. National Household Survey (NHS) Profile, 2011
The ACS Factfinder 2013 5-year estimates put the Bay Area Asian population at 1,832,965 out of a total population of 8,271,601, for an Asian percentages of ~22.1%.
So by percentages alone, Greater Toronto is significantly more Asian...but some might argue that the Bay Area "feels" more Asian due to perhaps the more even representation between Filipinos/Vietnamese/Chinese, while in the GTA, the Chinese vastly outnumber the other two groups.
So all of that having been said, I do think this is a worthwhile debate.
Its not the no brainer people are making it out to be. There are other factors that add to the SF bay area being heavily asian influenced.
The fact that it has a longer history with asian immigration particularly Chinese.
Its on the Pacific Rim and a major gateway city to Asia.
Its not an island, meaning throughout California there are large percentages of asians. 5.7 million statewide.
The percentages in the city of SF and Toronto are similar around 33% other areas are higher over 50%.
I think TO may continue to grow quicker, it has lots of momentum, but its not a huge difference right now.
The goal should never be to give someone a better life than where they came from, it should be to make sure that person reaches their full potential and on par with someone that is native born. Quite a few of these newcomers are highly educated and can contribute alot more to society than they are allowed. Foreign credentials and experience are not held in the same esteem. This is the case to varying degrees in the US, UK and Canada. So yes, there is a ton more that can be done.
I didn't say that wasn't the goal Ed.. As a matter of fact the goal should be to create an environment where everyone can achieve their full potential but neither goal is easy to achieve for large groups - this isn't a personal goal, it involves many many dynamics.... So essentially as I said it is a two way street between the society and the newcomer. I don't agree that the U.K/Canada should just refuse immigration until everyone who comes to those countries is istantly on par with the highest performing goups that are more established, I think that rids the immigrant an opportunity of starting to get to work for themselves and their children and I think they'd disagree with you about having to stay in the motherland longer because things in Toronto and London don't meet with your standard for them and alas Canada and the +250K per year who come here are in agreement. Does this mean we shouldn't make the environment better and more fertile for success - of course we need to do this but for many, a better life than in the homeland is still a more desirable life.
As a matter of fact, K Rai Sahi would probably agree with me on this as well - a man who came to Canada in 1971 and started out as a labourer.. He now runs one of Canada's largest R.E companies and is a Billionaire.
As for education and foreign credentials recognition, they are but two of many factors when it comes to getting a good job and integrating into a society.. When I graduated (i'm white) I had a crappy job for a few years until I worked my way up to more prosperity. Anyway I don't want to get into a U.S vs Canada/UK thing on immigration policy here - we are talking about cities with more Asian feel - do we need to go down the road of immigration policy and S.O.L in this thread.
I think it is more a case of following when the immigration waves happened for each of those groups. Those districts were formed out of necessity, at a time where newcomers had to huddle together to survive. That is not the case anymore as the communities are much more spread out and integrated.
These concentrations still happen, but are no longer defined. For example Bathurst and Wilson is probably Toronto's Little Manila, but does not have that official tag from the city. There is really no reason for them to define themselves as everyone knows where to go.
Valid points - though it would still be cool to have a really strong Flip and Sri Lankan district that is worthy of the size of those communities in T.O... I love Sri Lankan curries so would be nice to go to one area with many offerings.
Its not the no brainer people are making it out to be. There are other factors that add to the SF bay area being heavily asian influenced.
The fact that it has a longer history with asian immigration particularly Chinese.
Its on the Pacific Rim and a major gateway city to Asia.
Its not an island, meaning throughout California there are large percentages of asians. 5.7 million statewide.
The percentages in the city of SF and Toronto are similar around 33% other areas are higher over 50%.
I think TO may continue to grow quicker, it has lots of momentum, but its not a huge difference right now.
How many South Asians live in the Bay Area vs the GTA?
Valid points - though it would still be cool to have a really strong Flip and Sri Lankan district that is worthy of the size of those communities in T.O... I love Sri Lankan curries so would be nice to go to one area with many offerings.
It does exist, so it does not really need to be defined. Have you been to Bathurst and Wilson? So many places you can eat and shop around there. I am not as familiar with the current Sri Lankan scene, but when I was living in TO everyone knew that Parliament and Wellesley was where to go if you wanted multiple options for both eating and shopping. People just know where to go, similar to how people know to go to Staten Island if they want Sri Lankan food in NYC, even though it is not officially a "district"
I didn't say that wasn't the goal Ed.. As a matter of fact the goal should be to create an environment where everyone can achieve their full potential but neither goal is easy to achieve for large groups - this isn't a personal goal, it involves many many dynamics.... So essentially as I said it is a two way street between the society and the newcomer. I don't agree that the U.K/Canada should just refuse immigration until everyone who comes to those countries is istantly on par with the highest performing goups that are more established, I think that rids the immigrant an opportunity of starting to get to work for themselves and their children and I think they'd disagree with you about having to stay in the motherland longer because things in Toronto and London don't meet with your standard for them and alas Canada and the +250K per year who come here are in agreement. Does this mean we shouldn't make the environment better and more fertile for success - of course we need to do this but for many, a better life than in the homeland is still a more desirable life.
As a matter of fact, K Rai Sahi would probably agree with me on this as well - a man who came to Canada in 1971 and started out as a labourer.. He now runs one of Canada's largest R.E companies and is a Billionaire.
As for education and foreign credentials recognition, they are but two of many factors when it comes to getting a good job and integrating into a society.. When I graduated (i'm white) I had a crappy job for a few years until I worked my way up to more prosperity. Anyway I don't want to get into a U.S vs Canada/UK thing on immigration policy here - we are talking about cities with more Asian feel - do we need to go down the road of immigration policy and S.O.L in this thread.
Yup, no desire to get into this at all, lol. We have different views on immigration, most likely shaped by our personal experiences. But keep in mind Rai Sahi is a business owner, so I am sure he would agree that more needs to be done as far as credential recognition is concerned, so he can hire the very best from around the world and put them to work in a position of authority, rather than starting from the bottom.
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