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Just realized that the last sentence of my explanation here is unclear:
That should read "And the votes in favor of Minnesota will be cast by people who've never visited New Jersey."
Danny K: Also, Camden is on the mend finally — you may have read stories recently about how the new police department that was created after the city dissolved the old one (as a cost-saving move) has gained community trust, and that in turn has led to a dramatic drop in crime, especially the violent kind. And I also believe that Newark, the state's largest city, gets an undeserved bum rap. It has a full complement of civic amenities — sports arena, performing arts center, minor-league ballpark right on the Passaic River — a downtown that, while still shabby in many places, has life after 5 pm, a growing complement of decent restaurants and a Whole Foods Market (let that one sink in for a minute), and several colorful ethnic neighborhoods, the (Portuguese-American) Ironbound (right next to Newark Penn Station to boot) being the best known. Newark suffers largely thanks to its proximity to New York City: were it located anywhere further away, including where Philadelphia sits, we'd be talking about a metropolitan center in its own right.
Oh, and: The state also gets a bum rap thanks to the New Jersey Turnpike, which got routed right through the industrial-nightmare landscape of Essex and Union counties. If the Garden State Parkway took you to someplace outside the state, it would enjoy a much more favorable reputation. (Actually, it does on both ends, but you have to ride a ferry to get to Lewes, Del. I do recommend the ferry ride across the mouth of the Delaware Bay, though.)
I've been all over NJ. My sibling used to live there, and their spouse was from NJ. They lived in the NY suburbs and had a beach house near Atlantic City. I visited several times. It's a fine place to live, better than a lot of places in the country. I think the big negative for me is the lack of a large, nice, central city in the state. You've got the North Jersey NY suburbs and the South Jersey Phily suburbs. Some of them, especially just across the Hudson from NY, are incredibly urban. Still, there is no large downtown/urban center in the state. That's what put Minnesota over the top for me. Jersey is a better place than it's reputation, but I like Minnesota better. The forest and lakes are nice in Minnesota as well, but NJ has ocean, so that's kind of a wash for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny K
For all the people choosing Colorado over Virginia, I have a few things to say to you and a few questions to ask you all?
Have you actually been to Virginia besides just passing through it on the highways? Have you visited other parts of VA besides just Northern VA, and the D.C. Metropolitan Area?
Don't get me wrong, Colorado is very beautiful with great mountains, but Virginia just as SOOO much to offer, and I just can't see how so many people are choosing Colorado over Virginia if they actually are aware of all that VA has.
As always, these are just opinions. Basically, the difference for me, besides the Rockies, is Denver and Boulder. There is no city in Virginia I like as much. Virginia is a great place, and this was one of the closer ones for me. I would certainly take Virginia over anywhere in the Eastern third of Colorado. Illinois and Oregon was probably the only one that gave me more trouble. I like Chicago better than Portland, and eastern OR leaves a lot to be desired, but the rest of Illinois, outside of maybe Urbana/Champaign isn't my favorite. The difference in what nature is availble in a few hours from Chicago vs Portland pushed Oregon over the top for me.
As always, these are just opinions. Basically, the difference for me, besides the Rockies, is Denver and Boulder. There is no city in Virginia I like as much. Virginia is a great place, and this was one of the closer ones for me. I would certainly take Virginia over anywhere in the Eastern third of Colorado. Illinois and Oregon was probably the only one that gave me more trouble. I like Chicago better than Portland, and eastern OR leaves a lot to be desired, but the rest of Illinois, outside of maybe Urbana/Champaign isn't my favorite. The difference in what nature is availble in a few hours from Chicago vs Portland pushed Oregon over the top for me.
Makes total sense. I am curious though, have you seen Hampton Roads Area in VA? I wonder what areas that I mentioned in the previous post that you haven't seen. You are right in the fact that Denver is a cool city and has quite a different feeling from pretty much any city in Virginia, although I never thought THAT highly of Denver. It is No NY or LA. I guess it just greatly appeals to some people.
Deadline: Friday July 10th at 8:00pm EST, 7:00pm CST, 6:00pm MST, 5:00pm PST
Note: Remember, you can jump in and vote at any round, even if you missed Round 1 or any previous rounds as the tournament goes on. New voters are always welcome and wanted!
California vs Nevada
Tennessee vs Alaska
Georgia vs Hawaii
North Carolina vs New Hampshire
New York vs New Mexico
Washington vs Wisconsin
Pennsylvania vs Oklahoma
Virginia vs Colorado
Texas vs Iowa
Massachusetts vs Missouri
Ohio vs Kentucky
Michigan vs South Carolina
Florida vs Utah
Arizona vs Maryland
Illinois vs Oregon
New Jersey vs Minnesota
So there we have it. Who is READY to VOTE in Round 2!!!!
I know this is only the first day, and we've only had 5 voters this round so far, but I am very puzzled as to why are a few people choosing Utah over Florida? This really surprises me.
Lots of people don't like hot humid weather. And southern conservatives are creepier than Mormon conservatives.
I've been all over NJ. My sibling used to live there, and their spouse was from NJ. They lived in the NY suburbs and had a beach house near Atlantic City. I visited several times. It's a fine place to live, better than a lot of places in the country. I think the big negative for me is the lack of a large, nice, central city in the state. You've got the North Jersey NY suburbs and the South Jersey Phily suburbs. Some of them, especially just across the Hudson from NY, are incredibly urban. Still, there is no large downtown/urban center in the state. That's what put Minnesota over the top for me. Jersey is a better place than it's reputation, but I like Minnesota better. The forest and lakes are nice in Minnesota as well, but NJ has ocean, so that's kind of a wash for me.
I can see where someone would find Minnesota preferable to New Jersey; different people have different outdoor preferences.
But the sentence I bold-faced just underscores the point I made in the post of mine that you quoted about Newark getting a bum rap.
The following lead core cities of the 72 largest metropolitan areas in the country (the metros in the "2020 Metro Madness" tournament) all have populations smaller than Newark's 282,862:
Albany (the only core city on this list with a population under 100,000)
Akron
Allentown
Birmingham
Bridgeport
Dayton
Des Moines
Grand Rapids
Hartford (CT) and Springfield (MA) (Springfield is the larger of the two)
Providence
Richmond
Rochester
Syracuse
Toledo (just barely)
Worcester
Many of these have identifiable and noteworthy downtowns. In fact, I'd say that just about all of them have.
So does Newark. It not only has a central business district with the amenities I noted above (New Jersey Performing Arts Center; Prudential Arena; Bears & Eagles Riverfront Stadium bit the dust last year, to be replaced by a mixed-use residential-commercial development), but it also has a major corporate headquarters — that of the Prudential Insurance Company of America, which is probably as good a corporate citizen as one might want in any city. Instead of leaving Newark after the 1960s riots, it doubled down on the downtown (as its name on the sports arena should indicate).
One of Philadelphia's leading developers, Carl Dranoff, has just finished a major upmarket rental apartment building in downtown Newark, One Theater Square, located across Centre Street from NJPAC and managed by one of the East Coast's biggest and best-regarded rental property managers, Bozzuto. (Dranoff has gotten out of the rental construction business in Philly, preferring high-end condos instead.) It will be joined by that development on the ballpark site, which isn't a Dranoff project.
And not only does the city have its own airport, it also has a light metro line all its own: the Newark City Subway, opened in 1937. It also has two intercity/regional rail hubs: Newark Penn Station and Newark Broad Street Station (on the ex-Lackawanna Railroad regional system).
If you put all this someplace more than 15 minutes away from Lower Manhattan, it would be a metropolitan center in its own right. Instead, it gets overlooked, as it did here.
Makes total sense. I am curious though, have you seen Hampton Roads Area in VA? I wonder what areas that I mentioned in the previous post that you haven't seen. You are right in the fact that Denver is a cool city and has quite a different feeling from pretty much any city in Virginia, although I never thought THAT highly of Denver. It is No NY or LA. I guess it just greatly appeals to some people.
I’ve been to NoVA, Charlottesville, Williamsburg, VA Beach, and Norfolk. I drove through Richmond, but that doesn’t count in my book. I didn’t say I thought that highly of Denver, but I do think it is better than any of the metros in Virginia. Denver metro has almost twice the population of Hampton Roads, and feels like a much bigger city. Hampton Roads isn’t helped here by the fact that it is fragmented into so many cities. There are some nice neighborhoods, but no commercial center equivalent to downtown Denver, and really not even a downtown area that would be expected for a metro of 1.7 million. NoVA gives Denver a better run for its money in my opinion, but I still prefer a Denver, primarily because my favorite part of the DC metro is the District itself.
Then there are the Rockies. There are some pretty areas in the Appalachians, but I find the Rockies more incredible.
Virginia is a good state, and there are several State match-ups it would win for me, but Colorado tops it IMO.
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