What state is the most comparable to Ohio? (market, south, metro)
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I don't think most people consider Pittsburgh to be the Midwest. Pittsburgh is geographically close to the Ohio cities, so naturally people will compare them to each other.
I do find it amusing how PA homers are desperate to distance Pittsburgh from Ohio as if downtown PGH isn't less than 40 miles away from the Ohio state border.
I mean if we lived in Pennsylvania do you not think we would understand the culture identity a bit more??
Ohio and Pittsburgh are nothing alike. They just are not.
Again, there is one part of Pennsylvania that has strong Ohio traits and that is the area around Youngstown.
Other than that most of Pennsylvania is tied to New York, including Erie when comparing history, culture, etc.
Pennsylvania was a colonial state and its history solidly reflects that, and it was a very popular immigrant state at the same period of NY and its culture reflects that. Ohio saw a later generation and development and its culture is solid midwestern. Pennsylvania just is not.
There has been a handful of people on this board that seem intent on trying to shrink the perception of the Northeast US region, to only around 100 miles wide, and following I95. LOL. That would make it at least 5 times narrower on a map, than the next smallest region!!
Bear in mind, the Northeast is ALREADY by far the smallest region in the US, using the official designation including all of PA and NY.
If you get on a raft in downtown Pittsburgh you will find yourself in Ohio..not the East Coast.
Your point, though, is completely backwards from how it affected development and migration! That land was settled east to west, not the other way around. The towns and cities along the Ohio river in Ohio (and WV and KY) therefore have a bit more northeastern/midatlantic influence than they would if the river was not there. This didn't make PA more like Ohio-- just the opposite. It made some areas along the Ohio river, a little more like PA and the midatlantic. As is evidenced in the architecture there. It did not make the whole state of Ohio like PA though, just a relatively small portion along the river valleys.
I do find it amusing how PA homers are desperate to distance Pittsburgh from Ohio as if downtown PGH isn't less than 40 miles away from the Ohio state border.
Yep, this 110%. It's pretty comical. Shoot, I can get to Pittsburgh in 2 hours flat from Cleveland. My buddy in Steubenville works in Pittsburgh. My mom's side from areas around East Liverpool, Columbiana and Salem all mean Pittsburgh when they say "the city." Even my mom growing up in Canton had more associations with Pittsburgh. Lots of people have migration patterns like this actually, far from just my family. PA/WV/OH Appalachian families frequently found themselves moving a bit further into Ohio, especially Canton and Akron. You will find many, many people with family in both regions and they don't have this weird perception as them being so vastly different. This is an internet forum peculiarity.
I grew up in Pittsburgh and we never said we were Midwestern. Everyone just said we're in the Northeast but not on the East Coast because thats where the city is located. It wasn't until I came onto this board and heard dismissive people from Philly/NYC or striving Ohioans trying to lump themselves in with PGH that I heard the city labeled as a Midwestern lol.
Totally agree with this...in my experience, Ohioans who try and lump Pittsburgh into the Midwest or claim that Ohio is similar to PA are just ashamed to be a part of the Midwest for some unknown reason. Pittsburgh is in the Northeast and Ohio is the Midwest in geography, language, culture and climate. Even Ohio’s Appalachian region is not near the level of its neighbors to the Sputh and East and is mostly Flat or gently rolling hills.
Totally agree with this...in my experience, Ohioans who try and lump Pittsburgh into the Midwest or claim that Ohio is similar to PA are just ashamed to be a part of the Midwest for some unknown reason. Pittsburgh is in the Northeast and Ohio is the Midwest in geography, language, culture and climate. Even Ohio’s Appalachian region is not near the level of its neighbors to the Sputh and East and is mostly Flat or gently rolling hills.
The problem is that Northeast and Midwest are basically meaningless terms that lump very different cultures together. The Great Lakes part of the "Midwest" is much more similar to the Great Lakes part of the "Northeast" than it is to the Appalachian part of the "Midwest".
Pittsburgh has some similarities to Cleveland in that it has a similar pool of European ethnicities that migrated there when both cities were booming in the early 20th century. Other than that though, you're right, they're not that similar. Pittsburgh is a hilly city with really different architecture, and it has a lot more Appalachian influence than Cleveland does. The PA city that is VERY similar to Cleveland (or rather the small lakefront towns on Cleveland's periphery) is Erie because they're both Eastern Great Lakes cities. The accents are similar, the architecture is similar, the industries are similar, and the cultures are similar.
As to the question at hand though, it's not solely about culture and architecture to me; it's also about national influence.
Ohio is the only state in the midwest to have heavy multiple major metropolitan areas (like PA), very similar population sizes to PA, similar demographics, similar politics, and regions in Appalachia as well as the Great Lakes.
Last edited by Cleverfield; 03-16-2021 at 06:33 PM..
Arbitrary state boundaries are definitely the issue with the arguments in this thread.
Plus, as I mentioned before (since this thread is which state is Ohio most similar) that depends on what part of Ohio you are from. Northeast Ohio would definitely be most similar to Pennsylvania. The only other option would be SE Michigan (Detroit), and that would only be for Cleveland, and more specifically the western part of the metro, though, that one is confusing too in that while the eastside of the metro is more "sophisticated" and the westside is more "blue collar," the eastside has the most downtrodden black areas, which is associated more with the big Midwest metros. At the same time, the westside (out to Lorain County) has one of the highest percentages of Puerto Ricans in the country, a group most associated with the East Coast (and Ashtabula, Erie, Dunkirk, Buffalo over to Rochester ... the Great Lakes Puerto Rican belt). Pittsburgh has virtually no latin/hispanic population.
Take away the border between Ohio and Pennsylvania and New York as well, since if Pennsylvania wasn't granted Erie to give Pennsylvania a Great Lakes presence, New York's border would have ran up to the Ohio border.
I don't think anybody from Cleveland is arguing that it's an east coast city. Nor are the people from Pittsburgh. Though the people from Pittsburgh are using "Pennsylvania" to justify an eastern status and dismissing people from Cleveland/Northeast Ohio who say they are more similar to Western New York/Pennsylvania, just because it's in Ohio (a defined Midwest state). You can't have that both ways.
Plus, culturally, it's hard to argue against the similarities between Northeast Ohio/Western Pennsylvania/Western New York.
Italians, the other big group of immigrants associated with the East Coast, have a big presence in all three areas. Yes, Pittsburgh and Buffalo/Rochester, which each are around 15-17 percent, have percents that even surpass most East Coast cities. Those numbers drop off to like 13-14 percent in Youngstown/Steubenville and then 10 percent in each of Cleveland/Akron/Canton. You go west of there and the most Italian areas would be Detroit/Chicago/St. Louis, which are around 5 percent.
Northeast Ohio/Western New York/Western Pennsylvania all then percentage wise have the largest Slavic populations among the major metro areas. That's more a Midwest immigrant group, and largely Polish and then in the deep Midwest a sizable Czech population. With that, Buffalo is actually the most Polish metro in the US by percent (12 of the metro's 16 percent of Slavs are Polish). Both Cleveland/Northeast Ohio and Pittsburgh/Western Pennsylvania, easily have the most diverse group of people of Slavic descent. They are the only two metros with a significant population where it isn't Polish dominated. Northeast Ohio/Western Pennsylvania is really the only region of the country that has a significant population of South Slavs (former Yugoslavian countries). They are the only two (outside of NYC and Philly) that also are 2-plus percent Eastern Slav (Ukraine/Russia). While not technically Slavs, NE Ohio and Western Pa., also have the highest Hungarian population in the country (though NE Ohio higher there).
All have higher German populations than the East Coast cities, but less than you find in the Midwest. For blacks, I'll just speak for Cleveland (NE Ohio), but it's dominated by migration from the Carolinas and Alabama. I'm guessing that is similar to Western Pa., Western NY ... The Delta black migration seems to be more more Midwest (St. Louis/Chicago).
Cleveland has the second highest Arab percent (way behind Detroit, which is by far higher than anybody), but Cleveland's Arabs are also heavily on the westside ... the more "Michigan" part of the metro.
Pittsburgh has one of the highest percent of Scottish/Scotch-Irish, a group that is prevalent in Appalachia.
Anyway, these areas are very similar (not quite east/not quite Midwest). True, the housing stock/terrain is different in Pittsburgh, but it's not any different than what you will find in places like East Liverpool or Steubenville (both Ohio river cities). The housing stock/terrain in Cleveland/Erie/Buffalo is about identical, but culturally, not much separates any of them.
Pittsburgh is not the only major population center in Pennsylvania.
And most who keep bringing up Pittsburgh to lump in with Ohio are failing to remember that about 10 million of Pennsylvania's population actually lives East of State College, and its culture and history reflect that colonial era and are nothing alike to Ohio on any scale whatsoever.
Honestly, its why Pittsburgh is struggling slightly, because over 75% of the states population lives in the states Eastern portion from State College to the Susquehanna, Lehigh Valleys, Southeast Pennsylvania and the Northeast portion it is approximately 10 million people.
And the Northern Tier of Pennsylvania is 100% identical to New York, they are so alike it is hard to distinguish. Both mountainous with small historic towns from the 1700s.
Pennsylvania and New York are twins. Ohio and Pennsylvania not really. They originally developed at completely different times and have a different culture and feel overall.
There is nothing about Pennsylvania that has a midwestern feel aside of maybe Erie, but again to me it feels more like Buffalo not Cleveland and the Youngstown area, which I will agree that is the only part of Pennsylvania that has some Ohio flair.
The majority of Pennsylvania does not live in Pittsburgh, when 10,000,000 out of 12,800,000 live in the eastern portion of the state, I would say it is hard to make an argument Ohio is like it.
And the demographics are actually similar to a variety of states. Ohio has similar demographics as, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, etc.
Ohio and Indiana are twins. Ohio just has more metros than Indiana, but both are very very similar. Im not sure why people from Ohio are offended by this?
Last edited by rowhomecity; 03-17-2021 at 01:58 AM..
Arbitrary state boundaries are definitely the issue with the arguments in this thread.
Plus, as I mentioned before (since this thread is which state is Ohio most similar) that depends on what part of Ohio you are from. Northeast Ohio would definitely be most similar to Pennsylvania. The only other option would be SE Michigan (Detroit), and that would only be for Cleveland, and more specifically the western part of the metro, though, that one is confusing too in that while the eastside of the metro is more "sophisticated" and the westside is more "blue collar," the eastside has the most downtrodden black areas, which is associated more with the big Midwest metros. At the same time, the westside (out to Lorain County) has one of the highest percentages of Puerto Ricans in the country, a group most associated with the East Coast (and Ashtabula, Erie, Dunkirk, Buffalo over to Rochester ... the Great Lakes Puerto Rican belt). Pittsburgh has virtually no latin/hispanic population.
Take away the border between Ohio and Pennsylvania and New York as well, since if Pennsylvania wasn't granted Erie to give Pennsylvania a Great Lakes presence, New York's border would have ran up to the Ohio border.
I don't think anybody from Cleveland is arguing that it's an east coast city. Nor are the people from Pittsburgh. Though the people from Pittsburgh are using "Pennsylvania" to justify an eastern status and dismissing people from Cleveland/Northeast Ohio who say they are more similar to Western New York/Pennsylvania, just because it's in Ohio (a defined Midwest state). You can't have that both ways.
Plus, culturally, it's hard to argue against the similarities between Northeast Ohio/Western Pennsylvania/Western New York.
Italians, the other big group of immigrants associated with the East Coast, have a big presence in all three areas. Yes, Pittsburgh and Buffalo/Rochester, which each are around 15-17 percent, have percents that even surpass most East Coast cities. Those numbers drop off to like 13-14 percent in Youngstown/Steubenville and then 10 percent in each of Cleveland/Akron/Canton. You go west of there and the most Italian areas would be Detroit/Chicago/St. Louis, which are around 5 percent.
Northeast Ohio/Western New York/Western Pennsylvania all then percentage wise have the largest Slavic populations among the major metro areas. That's more a Midwest immigrant group, and largely Polish and then in the deep Midwest a sizable Czech population. With that, Buffalo is actually the most Polish metro in the US by percent (12 of the metro's 16 percent of Slavs are Polish). Both Cleveland/Northeast Ohio and Pittsburgh/Western Pennsylvania, easily have the most diverse group of people of Slavic descent. They are the only two metros with a significant population where it isn't Polish dominated. Northeast Ohio/Western Pennsylvania is really the only region of the country that has a significant population of South Slavs (former Yugoslavian countries). They are the only two (outside of NYC and Philly) that also are 2-plus percent Eastern Slav (Ukraine/Russia). While not technically Slavs, NE Ohio and Western Pa., also have the highest Hungarian population in the country (though NE Ohio higher there).
All have higher German populations than the East Coast cities, but less than you find in the Midwest. For blacks, I'll just speak for Cleveland (NE Ohio), but it's dominated by migration from the Carolinas and Alabama. I'm guessing that is similar to Western Pa., Western NY ... The Delta black migration seems to be more more Midwest (St. Louis/Chicago).
Cleveland has the second highest Arab percent (way behind Detroit, which is by far higher than anybody), but Cleveland's Arabs are also heavily on the westside ... the more "Michigan" part of the metro.
Pittsburgh has one of the highest percent of Scottish/Scotch-Irish, a group that is prevalent in Appalachia.
Anyway, these areas are very similar (not quite east/not quite Midwest). True, the housing stock/terrain is different in Pittsburgh, but it's not any different than what you will find in places like East Liverpool or Steubenville (both Ohio river cities). The housing stock/terrain in Cleveland/Erie/Buffalo is about identical, but culturally, not much separates any of them.
There are other areas in Ohio besides Cleveland. Just because Cleveland has some similarities to Western PA (debatable) does not = Ohio most similar to Pennsylvania. I get your point about how each region in Ohio shares similarities with its neighboring State, but overall, I can’t agree that majority of Ohio is similar to the majority of Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania was one of the original 13 colonies while Ohio wasn’t even a State until 1803.
Ohio has a significant German ancestry that Pennsylvania does not have, especially in Cincinnati and Columbus.
Also, Erie may look similar to Cleveland but is actually more ties to Buffalo and Pittsburgh and the accent is totally different. I worked in Erie from September 2020-January 2021 and I was surprised at how different it was compared to Cleveland. The two cities share Lake Erie, but have more differences than similarities.
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