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Currently the POA of SJP is a group of volunteers that runs all the day to day activities in the plantation with the exception of The Clubs.
The developer is relinquishing more and more responsibility to the POA and by 2020, less than 5 years, the developer will give up all seats on the governing board and it will be all POA.
That is, with the exception of the The Clubs. At some point the development of SJP will be complete. It is over halfway now. With all the activity in Seaside the remainder may be done sooner rather than later. At some point the developer is going to say "I'm done" and want to relinquish responsibility for The Clubs as well which means all the club houses, pools, health clubs and golf courses will go up for sale.
I have no real good idea what that property may be worth. As a wild guess I would say somewhere on the north side of 50 million. The POA is solvent with 4+ million in the bank but that is a long way from the value of The Clubs.
I am going to further speculate an say that since the POA has done a good job of managing SJP so far they would also do a good job of managing The Clubs if given the opportunity.
Could the POA buy The Clubs? Could membership dues and sales pay off a bank loan and continue to maintain all the facilities? Are the owners in SJP willing to take on the responsibility of The Clubs or would they feel more comfortable with an unknown party owning The Clubs?
Basically I see it as a business proposition with some risk. With good management it could be a tremendous asset to SJP or who ever else may own it. With poor management it could become a nightmare.
Just guessing on some numbers?
POA dues x 4,000 homes at build out is in the neighborhood of 3 million a year for street maintenance, landscaping, security, and all the facilities the POA maintains.
Club dues (assuming half the residents belong) or 2,000 x approximately $2,500 a year in dues is 5 million a year not including any income from pro shops, guests that pay, restaurants nor income from new member fees etc.
I could be way off in numbers but it is something to think about.
This would be a tremendous responsibility for the POA or any organization. The president of the POA would effectively be an elected CEO of a fairly large corporation.
Add to this the complexities of the town, town hall, fire/ems,community center, business around the perimeter, dealing with state and the list goes on.
There are a lot of things owners will have to face and decide on, maybe sooner than later.
Currently the POA of SJP is a group of volunteers that runs all the day to day activities in the plantation with the exception of The Clubs.
This would be a tremendous responsibility for the POA or any organization. The president of the POA would effectively be an elected CEO of a fairly large corporation.
You can bet, somebody is gonna be looking for a salary w/ bennies
If the POA bought the clubs, they would almost certainly hire a company to manage them. The developer might just keep them, hire a manager, and charge the POA a fee for access/use.
Funny, just the other night........I was thinking..........how is SJP going to continue on after the Developer is out?
Were you reading my mind?
I don't think there is an easy answer.
Probably the easiest.....would be to separate all pools and tennis from the clubs. Those would go to the POA, then sell the golf clubs. But is there a market for the clubs?? Are golf clubs still viable.....will they be in the future? When I take a look at the problems clubs in FL have gone through.......and clubs in my home state......and others up and down the east coast....I don't know. Is golf membership still a lure to SJP for new buyers?
Then there are those who have their Signature and Premier club memberships........how do you treat those equitably?
And then........I look at the flood maps.........and I cringe. Why, why, why....even without the new maps, I as a former developer/builder, would never have developed various lots. These distressed properties hurt the overall development. Shaded X I can deal with. AE not a chance. There will always be people who want waterfront/Zone VE. That's my 2 cents. I took a look at one home.....Shaded X and AE....Ele 7ft. Perfect house. Talked to my Flood Insurance carrier. Rated it AE even though the footprint of the entire house is in Shaded X. Base elevation is 11 ft. Seller is basically screwed unless they find a clueless buyer with cash to spend.
AE lots are everything between and around polly gully and the ICW. That is probably about a a quarter or more of SJP.
My lot is 11-12 foot above sea level and zoned AE. The house is on a raised slab that puts the first floor about 14-15 feet above sea level. There was a requirement I add flood vents to the garage and I put the HVAC on a 2 foot platform. Hot water is a on demand hanging on the wall and there are no other mechanical s on the ground. The rest of the HVAC etc is all top down from the attic space.
Annual flood insurance is $350 a year. Compare that to wind and hail insurance of $1,800 a year weather you are in a flood zone or not.
AE lots are everything between and around polly gully and the ICW. That is probably about a a quarter or more of SJP.
My lot is 11-12 foot above sea level and zoned AE. The house is on a raised slab that puts the first floor about 14-15 feet above sea level. There was a requirement I add flood vents to the garage and I put the HVAC on a 2 foot platform. Hot water is a on demand hanging on the wall and there are no other mechanical s on the ground. The rest of the HVAC etc is all top down from the attic space.
Annual flood insurance is $350 a year. Compare that to wind and hail insurance of $1,800 a year weather you are in a flood zone or not.
You started with a decent AE lot. 11-12 ft is workable. Newer construction I assume? Yeah, you have to love Wind & Hail....I pay a little more than that on my primary residence up north.
The "Clubs" and their future would be a concern of mine as I look at SJP for my future home. I have been coming down to Myrtle for years and have witnessed the demise of Deer Track, Marsh Harbor, Angels Trace, Bay Tree, etc. A belly up golf course is not a pretty site. I live in Reading, PA and have seen two private clubs go down and mine just went semi private. The demographics are changing and golf is falling out of favor. Play is too slow for the next generation who grew up on soccer not baseball.
My bet is SJP will look back on the opening of the Reserve with regrets. Public play will be tough as it is too far a drive for the "Myrtle Market". Great courses and community I hope it all works out.
I doubt the POA would purchase the clubs and if they did, they certainly would not manage them independently and would utilize a 3rd party management company. I would suspect that any change in ownership would result in grandfathering certain membership agreements and changes to new agreements going forward. I would love to see the courses remain private, but depending on the utilization of the courses and the revenues required to keep them running, semi private could be an option. We need the golf courses to keep strong property values and we certainly do not want them to look like "life after people." Fingers crossed that it works out ok.
Also, I thought SJP was at least 70% built out or has lots sold. Is the 50% figure I have seen on this board really correct?
Per Carolina Plantations Real Estate
Approximate # of Single Family Homes:
Currently Built: 2,500+
Total Build Out of Plantation: 5,000+
Approximate # of Multi-Family Homes:
Townhomes Currently Built: 500
Additional Condos: 50
I have heard 55% recently. There is a lot of construction going on in Seaside. There is still a fairly large area that is undeveloped around Seaside and in the northwest area of SJP along Middleton and 211. There is a long dirt road extension of Oceanic Drive that cuts through the middle of this area.
If the above number are close, there are still somewhere around 2000 homes to be built. Last year there were 200+ homes built and from what I have heard, this year will be about the same or better. That is still about 10 years until "Build Out" if the pace continues.
The builder relinquishes control of the POA in 2020 or about 4.5 years. I don't think that means the builder gives up The Clubs at the same time. I suspect the builder will control The Clubs until build out, maybe longer if they are turning a good profit. Who knows what the builder may do? They are pretty tight lipped about plans it seems. As long as they own the clubs they are free to do as they please with it.
It is my understanding The Clubs have been viable and healthy thus far, more so than the marina it seems. I see no reason they should not remain so under good management. When the time is right, if the POA could, I think it should purchase The Clubs to keep control in the community. I agree that the POA would not manage the day to day operation but would contract it out, much like landscaping and so on now.
As part of the speculation, the future of golf in general doesn't look bad. I am not a golfer but I can read, as follows:
To stay current golf will continue to change as it has in the past. The Golf 2020 outlook includes:
Clubs and courses will become more family friendly.
There will be 6 and 9 hole formats.
Association with younger, fitter players will promote fashion and word on the street.
The next Tiger Woods will be a young Asian.
Asian golf brands will become common.
More women will play.
Golf simulation games will increase.
Gamers will become golfers.
New apps, tablets and software will become smart coaches.
Golf will become a center of expertise in water management, conservation and biodiversity.
The first carbon positive courses will open.
Equipment rules will change to to keep course lengths in control.
Golf tourism is increasing with new markets on the horizon like Cuba.
Participation will be broader.
The game will be more flexible.
It will be more accessible.
It will be more technologically engaged.
Courses will be sustainable.
All these things seem to point to a bright future for golf. Properly managed golf communities should piggy back and also do well. It will be a balancing act between membership and public play. As in most things, follow the money.
As part of the speculation, the future of golf in general doesn't look bad. I am not a golfer but I can read, as follows:
To stay current golf will continue to change as it has in the past. The Golf 2020 outlook includes:
Clubs and courses will become more family friendly.
There will be 6 and 9 hole formats.
Association with younger, fitter players will promote fashion and word on the street.
The next Tiger Woods will be a young Asian.
Asian golf brands will become common.
More women will play.
Golf simulation games will increase.
Gamers will become golfers.
New apps, tablets and software will become smart coaches.
Golf will become a center of expertise in water management, conservation and biodiversity.
The first carbon positive courses will open.
Equipment rules will change to to keep course lengths in control.
Golf tourism is increasing with new markets on the horizon like Cuba.
Participation will be broader.
The game will be more flexible.
It will be more accessible.
It will be more technologically engaged.
Courses will be sustainable.
All these things seem to point to a bright future for golf. Properly managed golf communities should piggy back and also do well. It will be a balancing act between membership and public play. As in most things, follow the money.
"Bright future for golf" do a google search for the future of golf and you'll come away with a different opinion.
Ron W.
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