Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I realize this is new ground for everyone involved. Children's and Adult ICUs staff everywhere will learn from this case.
My questions may offend some and that really isn't my intention. I'll apologize in advance and suggest anyone offended not read further.
I've needed a break from this case for a while. Away, I found my mind wandering back to 2-3 basic questions about the M.E.'s role and knowledge. I'm certain M.E.'s/Coroner's Offices will be learning too.
Given that the M.E. ultimately will have to conduct an autopsy and the Alameda County Coroner's Office was the location the "transfer" occurred, do you think the M.E.'s office knows where her body was moved?
What keeps going through my mind is how will the M.E. be certain to get the body back?
I'm trying to be sensitive to readers and that a 13 y.o. is gone. I'm also thinking of how an M.E. will be included or not, down the road.
Maybe someone understands my questions and can either answer or re - state a different way so my concern is more clear.
Thanks in advance for any info.
MSR
I think many are wondering the same thing.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they disposed of the body on their own.
And then, when faced with charges, their defense will be a combination of their faith and mother's grief.
That their faith did not permit the body to be defiled by an autopsy and her mother just could not allow it. The body was rotting away, yet mom was not ready to turn the body over.....scratch that......not ready to turn over her beloved child, to be further desecrated by the indignity of an autopsy. You get the drift. The same trump cards they have used to get this far.
Just try to prosecute us for following our faith......just try to prosecute a grieving mother. We dare you.
The trial and publicity would be right up there with OJ, Michael Jackson and Casey Anthony. Images of celebrity and $$$$ signs floating around in their heads.....especially their attorney's.
A lot of this is the basic info; however, there are some points we've not really addressed.
I'm glad to see this critique of the family's lawyer and the ethicists talking about a facility taking a brain dead patient's body.
But cutting to the chase, how is this "care" being pad for? LA Times
MSR
If the attorney is giving the family the bad advice that keeps her hooked up, it would be good to see him get some type of disciplinary action.
It's hard to rationalize that he is working in their best interests.
From the article:
Quote:
San Francisco attorney Christopher Dolan has also been widely criticized as having fed false hope to the McMath family that somehow their daughter -- who was issued a death certificate by the Alameda County coroner -- will recover.
According to the go fund me site they have now raised $58K in donations, I also read something about Catholic charities but I doubt they are funding everything. My best guess is that they have a 'tab' with the lawyer against anything they might 'win' in damages from the hospital.
On another note, this case came up in discussion with a friend who's been a nurse for nearly 40 years yesterday. She said she is saddened by the family not being able to let go and being given false hope and on a more professional level she is appalled that they are trying to feed what is essentially a dead body. Her best guess is that although the nutrients the child is being given are liquid not solid they will enter the stomach where in the absence of enzymes to break down the proteins etc they will fester and with her gut already sloughing could cause peritonitis or septicemia
I took a quick look at the Keep Jahi Mcmath alive page on facebook and among the prayers there are many many negative comments and no further updates due to death threats (alleged).
This case has truly turned macabre. It's become a cross between " Weekend at Bernie's " and " The Walking Dead".
The parents don't seem to have realized that the hospital did not release their daughter to them. Rather, she was released to the coroner who then released the dead body to them. Do they not know what a coroner is ? So they take the dead body, move it around to who knows where. Then, under the assumption that corpses can process food and want to eat, are trying to feed the deceased.
It's truly bizarre. They've ignored or disregarded all fact as to what happens with a brain dead body. I think the reason we are hearing nothing is that reality may be setting in. They can do what they want with Jahi's body now, but what they are doing is not giving them their desired result. There is nothing to report as the expected " improvements" will never happen. So sad.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they disposed of the body on their own.
And then, when faced with charges, their defense will be a combination of their faith and mother's grief.
That their faith did not permit the body to be defiled by an autopsy and her mother just could not allow it. The body was rotting away, yet mom was not ready to turn the body over.....scratch that......not ready to turn over her beloved child, to be further desecrated by the indignity of an autopsy. You get the drift. The same trump cards they have used to get this far.
Just try to prosecute us for following our faith......just try to prosecute a grieving mother. We dare you.
The trial and publicity would be right up there with OJ, Michael Jackson and Casey Anthony. Images of celebrity and $$$$ signs floating around in their heads.....especially their attorney's.
Wouldn't surprise me one damn bit.
Thanks Annie,
I've wondered many of the same things. That is why I posted what I did about the M.E.'s office. They can work with law enforcement, but I don't know how the M.E. is assured of getting the body back for an autopsy.
At some point, I wonder if Child and Family Services will be called? I can't even guess how her siblings are doing with all of this.
It was one thing when the mom and others refused to accept the brain death declaration from CHO. It was a family and their view vs. the staff and outside experts at CHO.
I honestly never thought this case could get more bizarre. I think the family has the right to practice their religion. However, do they have the right to instruct her former school what classmates may be told.
If the attorney is giving the family the bad advice that keeps her hooked up, it would be good to see him get some type of disciplinary action.
It's hard to rationalize that he is working in their best interests.
From the article:
Rakin,
You highlighted part of the best portion of the article.
I suppose the family could sue the attorney for legal malpractice. I'm not an attorney so I don't know. Maybe one of our legal experts could comment further.
According to the go fund me site they have now raised $58K in donations, I also read something about Catholic charities but I doubt they are funding everything. My best guess is that they have a 'tab' with the lawyer against anything they might 'win' in damages from the hospital.
On another note, this case came up in discussion with a friend who's been a nurse for nearly 40 years yesterday. She said she is saddened by the family not being able to let go and being given false hope and on a more professional level she is appalled that they are trying to feed what is essentially a dead body. Her best guess is that although the nutrients the child is being given are liquid not solid they will enter the stomach where in the absence of enzymes to break down the proteins etc they will fester and with her gut already sloughing could cause peritonitis or septicemia
I took a quick look at the Keep Jahi Mcmath alive page on facebook and among the prayers there are many many negative comments and no further updates due to death threats (alleged).
Jan,
Thanks for posting. I have a lot of similar thoughts as your nurse friend. I think that is where the Ethicists throughout the U. S. are starting to speak out more.
In this level of denial, again, I wonder if Family Services has been notified and is working with the family or if they will get called (Child Protective Services/Family Services). I can't see how the family is capable of caring for the other children.
Also, while I understand your point about funding via the attorney, maybe there is a book deal. But with more bizarre things that occur, I become increasingly skeptical about any lawsuits against the hospital and/or medical staff.
They may be multi - millionaires down the road, but it seems like many who were originally sympathetic to the family's conflict with the hospital, are losing that compassion as the family makes repeated unusual decisions other families wouldn't.
I don't know if there will be the "demand" for hearing this family's story later as there once was.
This case has truly turned macabre. It's become a cross between " Weekend at Bernie's " and " The Walking Dead".
The parents don't seem to have realized that the hospital did not release their daughter to them. Rather, she was released to the coroner who then released the dead body to them. Do they not know what a coroner is ? So they take the dead body, move it around to who knows where. Then, under the assumption that corpses can process food and want to eat, are trying to feed the deceased.
It's truly bizarre. They've ignored or disregarded all fact as to what happens with a brain dead body. I think the reason we are hearing nothing is that reality may be setting in. They can do what they want with Jahi's body now, but what they are doing is not giving them their desired result. There is nothing to report as the expected " improvements" will never happen. So sad.
Great post willow wind.
I hope reality is setting in. However, check the link about the school I posted above. It would seem to me they wouldn't be controlling the school dialog up if they were dealing in facts.
I have to wonder if a different attorney would have handled things differently?
MSR
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've Wondered the Same Thing
