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Not to mention she had a planned ICU stay after the procedure. There is no way her family wasn't aware of the risks.
Not only that, remember, there were reports that the family fed her bites of a hamburger, which could have opened fresh wounds and caused the hemorrhage in the first place.
Is the family's decision to keep her on life support clouded by guilt?
If this did indeed happen, it will come to light when their lawsuit against the hospital goes to court.
If I remember correctly, there were other families in the ICU that witnessed them giving her hamburger to eat. If true, I am sure they will be called to testify.
I'm not going to blame the parents for causing the death of their own child because I don't know what happened.
I do know that it is long past time to let go. I would want to keep my beautiful son here forever too ~ but I know he wouldn't want to live that way. So, I would have to let him go.
Not only that, remember, there were reports that the family fed her bites of a hamburger, which could have opened fresh wounds and caused the hemorrhage in the first place.
Is the family's decision to keep her on life support clouded by guilt?
If this did indeed happen, it will come to light when their lawsuit against the hospital goes to court.
If I remember correctly, there were other families in the ICU that witnessed them giving her hamburger to eat. If true, I am sure they will be called to testify.
Yup. There are also claims that the grandmother (a nurse) stuck a suction into her mouth against advice of the nurses on staff and suctioned Jahi's blood herself. Perhaps she did more damage to the mouth by suctioning wrongly.
I've also heard claims that Jahi's doctor recommended Jahi try to lose some weight to help with the apnea but the mother preferred surgery. I've read up a lot on this case because I find it very interesting and frustrating so I've read claims that may or may not be true, but none of what I read seemed out of the realm of possibility.
I don't think the family intended for anything bad to happen. I think they meant well. I think they were uneducated/didn't listen and were reckless, but they loved her, I don't doubt that. But it's time to take responsibility for the role they played in her death. IMO guilt is what's making them keep her alive. They're feeling guilty and they don't want to admit their actions were negligent in their daughter's death. Terribly sad but it seems to be the reality.
When the machines are turned off, her heart will stop as she is brain dead so her brain stem cannot even perform the most basic functions. This is a dead person being kept artificially alive. There is no hope for her despite what her family claims. Multiple doctors have declared her brain dead, and ones on the family's side who say there is activity are not credible within the medical community. It's a shame what the parents are doing to her.
She is already dead, Ringo1, it's just a matter or removing the machines and letting her heart actually stop, which it will as her body cannot sustain itself due to diagnosed brain death.
First, thanks to the person who gave me the rep point. I wouldn't have found this otherwise. I have wondered often what has happened with this teen.
Please help me out, JerseyGirl. How can she remain on life support if every sign of brain death has been declared? If I recall accurately, it was private donations and the interest of the one very questionable center that would accept her. But if NJ tax dollars are paying for her care, how can she remain on life support? Her heart will eventually stop, I agree with you, but she was basically a mostly healthy pre-teen when the sad events occurred. Her heart could continue to beat in response to medicines, oxygen and other support from machines, for quite a while if all support continues.
I agree, if the machines were removed, her heart would stop in anywhere from minutes to hours.
I'm not going to blame the parents for causing the death of their own child because I don't know what happened.
I do know that it is long past time to let go. I would want to keep my beautiful son here forever too ~ but I know he wouldn't want to live that way. So, I would have to let him go.
I like your post, Ringo 1. If there is anything positive to come out of these years of waiting, I hope some have learned Brain Death is not reversible. I believe a child deserves a Dignified death. I would hope your maturity as a parent, hypothetically about your son, is a view I hope more can adoopt. IMHO, that is real love.
Wow. Is that something like Expanded Medicaid from the ACA? Is it from NJ or CA?
Wow! I'm stunned
MSR
It apparently has to do with NJ law, which allows a definition of death based on cessation of heartbeat and respiration, rather than brain death. Nothing to do with the ACA.
If states wish to allow such a definition it seems to me that use of artificial ventilation should not be allowed when the determination of death is being made. Also, we need a universal definition that would make it impossible for a person to be dead in one state and alive in another.
First, thanks to the person who gave me the rep point. I wouldn't have found this otherwise. I have wondered often what has happened with this teen.
Please help me out, JerseyGirl. How can she remain on life support if every sign of brain death has been declared? If I recall accurately, it was private donations and the interest of the one very questionable center that would accept her. But if NJ tax dollars are paying for her care, how can she remain on life support? Her heart will eventually stop, I agree with you, but she was basically a mostly healthy pre-teen when the sad events occurred. Her heart could continue to beat in response to medicines, oxygen and other support from machines, for quite a while if all support continues.
I agree, if the machines were removed, her heart would stop in anywhere from minutes to hours.
Can't NJ residents file a petition or something?
MSR
I have no idea. I don't agree with the law or what the family did, I just live here.
But yeah it's awful. I don't know how to go about changing the law but it's sure as hell not easy to do. I wonder if any other states are like NJ in this matter. I mean, they chose to come here all the way from CA so unless something else drew them to NJ also, I can't imagine many more. I agree though that the definition of death should be the exact same for all states so this cannot happen. It's not fair to Jahi or NJ residents, who are now supporting a CA resident who was only moved here for the benefits. Not right. At the least, what her parents did should not be allowed. Moving a person who has been declared dead by 5 doctors in one state to another. I still can't believe they won anything in court. The whole thing is a travesty.
It apparently has to do with NJ law, which allows a definition of death based on cessation of heartbeat and respiration, rather than brain death. Nothing to do with the ACA.
If states wish to allow such a definition it seems to me that use of artificial ventilation should not be allowed when the determination of death is being made. Also, we need a universal definition that would make it impossible for a person to be dead in one state and alive in another.
Thanks Suzy. I asked about the ACA because somehow this child/teen got accepted to one state's program. I haven't followed the family and who lives where. I was really asking if she is covered by Med-I-Cal ( through California) or Medicaid through NJ. Not every state automatically expanded Medicaid to cover the uninsured. Others cover with no proof of residency. So I was really asking about which state and Tax Payer's were paying for her body's expensive care.
If it is NJ, I wondered how she qualified, as I thought she had Med-i-Cal back in Oakland, but can't remember for sure. It's probably in the first 25 pages here.
I'll admit, one reason for asking which state was covering her with Medicaid (and JerseyGirl's responses kind of make me think it might be NJ), is I want to show some who live in the states where no address is needed for Medicaid, someone could move to those states and get Medicaid the same week, that very expensive and legally complex outcomes can arise from having such lax rules. I'll try to look this up as well.
There does need to be a universal definition of death to protect the providers, staff, facilities and other *innocent parties*. I would rather see a clarifying statement or two that are very specific to hypothermia and maybe one to two other things. Severe hypothermia can stop both the heartbeat and respirations. But, brain needs change too, less oxygen and glucose are needed at extreme temps of drowning. This was the first and defining paper about a child submerged in icy water for 66 minutes. I know the authors and worked with them for years. I'd hate to see a true attempt to bring a child or adult back from severe hypothermia stopped by wording about respirations and heartbeat in state policy.
It is an honor for me to have worked with these MDs. What is exceptionally strange and I don't know how to calculate this probability, I learned probably about 15 -20 years later, the child they brought back is the daughter of my then dentist. It helped to get an adult update on her. The key was this was EXTREME HYPOTHERMIA NEAR DROWNING in a child which caused her cessation of pulse and heartbeat. Not an elective surgery in a warm hospital. The use of extracorporeal rewarming in a child submerged for 66 minutes. - PubMed - NCBI (The use of extracorporeal rewarding in a child submerged for 66 minutes). It is different than what happened to Jahi.
I look forward to learning which state is providing the Medicaid for Jahi.
I have no idea. I don't agree with the law or what the family did, I just live here.
But yeah it's awful. I don't know how to go about changing the law but it's sure as hell not easy to do. I wonder if any other states are like NJ in this matter. I mean, they chose to come here all the way from CA so unless something else drew them to NJ also, I can't imagine many more. I agree though that the definition of death should be the exact same for all states so this cannot happen. It's not fair to Jahi or NJ residents, who are now supporting a CA resident who was only moved here for the benefits. Not right. At the least, what her parents did should not be allowed. Moving a person who has been declared dead by 5 doctors in one state to another. I still can't believe they won anything in court. The whole thing is a travesty.
Well no, she wasn't moved for Medicaid benefits. She was accepted into a NYC facility when CA wanted to discontinue life support. Some physicians with agendas accepted her. The facility in NYC wasn't even totally built. The physicians who told the family they could make her better had/ have an Institute in NJ where they conduct their research. That is how she ended up in NJ.
I'll look back a few pages to find the NJ doctor's name and their institute. The Terri Schiavo foundation was key in funding cross country transport as a few did not understand the difference in Brain Death and severe brain injury, which is what Terri Schiavo had.
Write your Legislatures, if she is covered by NJ Medicaid. Their hands literally might be tied if she received Medicaid from the Expansion and ACA. That is federal.
MSR
Last edited by Mtn. States Resident; 01-04-2016 at 09:25 PM..
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