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An article with info on deaths from flu: http://http://pediatrics.about.com/o...s-from-flu.htm Any number of articles exist for any of the diseases we've been discussing. Why do you assume anyone arguing for the use of vaccines hasn't done research? Of course we have.
And your personal experience does not stand for how a disease behaves within a large population. You are blessed with good health. That is wonderful. But not everyone has that same experience. A "no big deal" to you could be a very serious incident for someone else. Please bear that in mind.
So you have the obligation under the Constitution to put your OWN LIFE at risk purely to save others? Since when? Quote the passage to me.
Don't bother citing Jacoboson because there is no World Wide PANDEMIC of anything; not measles, chicken pox, FLU, or EBOLA!
Look, you can make all of the excuses that you like. If you want to just blindly trust authorities, be my guest. I'd like at least some evidence. "Because I said so" is not evidence.
I am not the one who is saying that a woman in Washington State died from measles. It is the officials at the Washington state department of health who say so, and they have the autopsy results and patient history. It was also reported to the CDC.
"Measles killed a Washington woman in the spring — the first such death in the U.S. in 12 years and the first in the state in 25, health officials said Thursday.
"The Washington woman lacked some of the measles' common symptoms, such as a rash, so the infection wasn't discovered until an autopsy, department spokesman Donn Moyer said.
It was the 11th case of measles in Washington — and the sixth in Clallam County — this year, he said."
"The woman was hospitalized for several health conditions in the spring at a facility in Clallam County, which covers the northern part of the Olympic Peninsula. She was there at the same time as a person who later developed a rash and was contagious for measles, Moyer said. That's when the woman most likely was exposed.
After being treated in Clallam County, the woman was moved to the University of Washington Medical Center in Seattle, where she died. An autopsy concluded the cause of death was pneumonia due to measles.
'This tragic situation illustrates the importance of immunizing as many people as possible to provide a high level of community protection against measles,' Moyer said. 'People with compromised immune systems cannot be vaccinated against measles. Even when vaccinated, they may not have a good immune response when exposed to disease; they may be especially vulnerable to disease outbreaks' "
You think Donn Moyer is a liar? What evidence do you have of that?
Quote:
You don't know that. You're jumping to conclusions. What you are doing is no different then someone claiming that the vaccine killed them.
Are you sure it was the same batch? You're quite guilty of ignoring anything that does not support your pro vaccine for everyone agenda so I wouldn't be so quick to throw stones. I'm asking questions. I'm not even saying that the vaccine was at fault. I'm saying that we don't know. That is somehow threatening to you, Mark and tlvancouver for some reason. Hopefully we'll hear the results of the investigation that is supposedly going to happen.
All I am going by is what little has been reported. The reports say the batch used has not been associated with problems elsewhere. Your insistence otherwise appears to have no basis other than your not wanting to believe it. The only children who have had problems were all given the vaccine by an untrained person who is apparently a maid or janitor. Sorry, but that is pretty strong evidence that the problem is not the vaccine but the person who administered it.
I, too, hope we see the results of the investigation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
The photo from that particular link you shared was a stock photo not one taken in 1970. It was first used on a page about bacteria. I research images all the time in my line of work so I am 99% sure that the photo is not Ebola from diseased human tissue. (Also, I'm pretty sure the one from 1976 would be black and white but that's not really important.)
I do not know whether you are being deliberately obtuse or whether you did not even see the photo I am referring to. The pictures for sale are available in several colors. That has nothing to do with where the material used to isolate the virus came from.
The picture is of Ebolavirus isolated from a patient infected in Zaire.
"Murphy shot some images of the virus in the microscope. Those pictures are still the most commonly available images of the virus, including the photo included in this post and a brightly colored version he created. The trio immediately took the prints past the various levels of bureaucracy and straight to the director of the CDC at the time, Dr. David Sencer. After a couple of hours and additional tests, Webb came in and confirmed that the virus was not Marburg, but something entirely new — what would eventually become known as Ebola, named after the Ebola River in Zaire (now the Democratic Republic of the Congo)."
It is indeed "Ebola from diseased human tissue."
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
Why the need for several deaths? Her death happened in April but was reported just 1 day after the bill passed in CA. That is why it is suspicious that there was so little information and not part of official stats.
The death was reported when the autopsy results were in. Those take several weeks to finish.
The same agency that compiles the stats is the one that reported the death. The stats have simply not been updated, which is not unusual at all.
I am not the one who is saying that a woman in Washington State died from measles. It is the officials at the Washington state department of health who say so, and they have the autopsy results and patient history. It was also reported to the CDC.
I understand that you believe whatever the CDC says despite any evidence so I'm not surprised that you are so indignant that anyone dare question it. Because they said so is enough for you. I get it.
I understand that you believe whatever the CDC says despite any evidence so I'm not surprised that you are so indignant that anyone dare question it. Because they said so is enough for you. I get it.
So you believe Donn Moyer with the Washington State department of health is lying when he says a woman died from measles in his state. Really?
So you believe Donn Moyer with the Washington State department of health is lying when he says a woman died from measles in his state. Really?
I don't necessarily believe that this death did not occur but the timing of the announcement, the sensationalistic coverage and the lack of any details whatsoever along with the surveillance stats remaining contradictory raises questions.
Quote:
The death was reported when the autopsy results were in. Those take several weeks to finish.
Weeks? She died in April, the announcement was made in early July. Try months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
All I am going by is what little has been reported. The reports say the batch used has not been associated with problems elsewhere. Your insistence otherwise appears to have no basis other than your not wanting to believe it. The only children who have had problems were all given the vaccine by an untrained person who is apparently a maid or janitor. Sorry, but that is pretty strong evidence that the problem is not the vaccine but the person who administered it.
The only thing that I have insisted upon is that no one yet knows what the cause of deaths was. It could be improper handling, the wrong substance injected all together or it could have been the vaccine itself. The only thing I've insisted on is that people should not jump to conclusions.
I am not the one who is saying that a woman in Washington State died from measles. It is the officials at the Washington state department of health who say so, and they have the autopsy results and patient history. It was also reported to the CDC.
"Measles killed a Washington woman in the spring — the first such death in the U.S. in 12 years and the first in the state in 25, health officials said Thursday.
"The Washington woman lacked some of the measles' common symptoms, such as a rash, so the infection wasn't discovered until an autopsy, department spokesman Donn Moyer said.
It was the 11th case of measles in Washington — and the sixth in Clallam County — this year, he said."
"The woman was hospitalized for several health conditions in the spring at a facility in Clallam County, which covers the northern part of the Olympic Peninsula. She was there at the same time as a person who later developed a rash and was contagious for measles, Moyer said. That's when the woman most likely was exposed.
After being treated in Clallam County, the woman was moved to the University of Washington Medical Center in Seattle, where she died. An autopsy concluded the cause of death was pneumonia due to measles.
'This tragic situation illustrates the importance of immunizing as many people as possible to provide a high level of community protection against measles,' Moyer said. 'People with compromised immune systems cannot be vaccinated against measles. Even when vaccinated, they may not have a good immune response when exposed to disease; they may be especially vulnerable to disease outbreaks' "
You think Donn Moyer is a liar? What evidence do you have of that?
All I am going by is what little has been reported. The reports say the batch used has not been associated with problems elsewhere. Your insistence otherwise appears to have no basis other than your not wanting to believe it. The only children who have had problems were all given the vaccine by an untrained person who is apparently a maid or janitor. Sorry, but that is pretty strong evidence that the problem is not the vaccine but the person who administered it.
I, too, hope we see the results of the investigation.
I do not know whether you are being deliberately obtuse or whether you did not even see the photo I am referring to. The pictures for sale are available in several colors. That has nothing to do with where the material used to isolate the virus came from.
The picture is of Ebolavirus isolated from a patient infected in Zaire.
"Murphy shot some images of the virus in the microscope. Those pictures are still the most commonly available images of the virus, including the photo included in this post and a brightly colored version he created. The trio immediately took the prints past the various levels of bureaucracy and straight to the director of the CDC at the time, Dr. David Sencer. After a couple of hours and additional tests, Webb came in and confirmed that the virus was not Marburg, but something entirely new — what would eventually become known as Ebola, named after the Ebola River in Zaire (now the Democratic Republic of the Congo)."
It is indeed "Ebola from diseased human tissue."
The death was reported when the autopsy results were in. Those take several weeks to finish.
The same agency that compiles the stats is the one that reported the death. The stats have simply not been updated, which is not unusual at all.
Your previous link (Ebola virus detected in Guinea fever outbreak) showed this image:
This is an image that could be anything but was labeled Ebola when it was previously used for a page on bacteria.
You now cite another link with an image (claiming it is again from 1976) of this:
Do those look remotely similar? This image is also a stock photo as the caption states and has been used/purchased for use over 4000 times. The very first incidence was in a 2007 report here: Ebola: No more 'kissing' - Worldnews.com
However this is a cultured image not from actual human tissue... How I know? From the article itself... "The tubes containing the blood and specimens of infected patients had shattered, but Patricia Webb, a CDC virologist, put on gloves and managed to squeeze a drop of the fluid from cotton that had been surrounding the specimens into a tube of monkey kidney cells. A few days later, the monkey cells looked damaged, and Webb gave Murphy a drop of the fluid to process under the microscope."
The patients blood mixed with monkey cells (a supposed reservoir for Ebola) and suddenly it is discovered as the cause of the patients symptoms???
Again not from a human... The monkey likely carried it in the first place and it had nothing to do with the samples that shattered. Try again.
Also the woman in Washington was vaccinated... that could be why they found it in autopsy yet she had no symptoms. She died from pneumonia not measles.
Congratulations, Katjonjj! You have just rewritten history. Since you are so convinced that people die of pneumonia instead of the measles itself, then I guess you think all those millions of people who died from the 1918 flu also died from pneumonia, since that also resulted from the flu and was the main cause of death for so many. You have just overturned all the medical experts of the last 100 years by letting us know that there was no flu epidemic in 1918. Instead, there was a huge pneumonia epidemic that spread from person to person. Who knew?
By the way, if someone pushed you into the path of a car and you got hit and got a broken leg, who do you sue for the medical bills? The person who hit you or the person who shoved you? According to your logic, the person who hit you was at fault, since that's the reason you have a broken leg, and the person who shoved you in the first place has no liability at all. Good thing you're not a lawyer - you'd suck at it.
Weeks? She died in April, the announcement was made in early July. Try months.
Maybe we don't know more than we do about this case because more is none of our business. Don't HIPAA laws cover private patient information? What we do know is a record of public information, which is why, again, they call it PUBLIC health.
Number one cause of death with a measles infection = MEASLES pneumonia.
These vaccines were given by the clinic cleaning person, and the vaccines were stored in a non-medical refrigerator, not sealed, and were stored alongside other chemicals, reagents, and food. Goodness knows what contamination was in those vials, as well as the technique a janitor may employ to give a shot.
All in all the worst combination of hideous factors, but as was clearly spelled out not caused by the vaccines directly.
Maybe we don't know more than we do about this case because more is none of our business. Don't HIPAA laws cover private patient information? What we do know is a record of public information, which is why, again, they call it PUBLIC health.
If it's none of our business then why was it such a huge media story?
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