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Do you accept only clearly stated and legally flawless advances given ample time for you to evaluate a suitor credentials? Perhaps, you keep a lawyer by bedside?
Do you accept only clearly stated and legally flawless advances given ample time for you to evaluate a suitor credentials? Perhaps, you keep a lawyer by bedside?
I think most people can understand consent and the cues given by others indicating it. It's a minority who assault others, men or women, sexually, but those people DO deserve consequences. I never see anyone need to ask for consent to kiss or touch their boyfriend/girlfriend or someone they are mutually interested in. Unless one is clueless, mentally ill, or a sociopath I think most people can read cues indicating consent. If someone forcibly kisses someone who was not interested, then yeah they should expect consequences. But it's quite obvious what people want if you actually take the time to read people. I think it's arrogant, entitled guys who don't care who will assault a woman. Rapists, there's more to it, but assault like a forced kiss or unwanted touching, they're just entitled jerks who need to go back to learning basic manners and social cues.
If you need a woman to spell out her consent for you every time you want to do something with her, then it's YOU who has a problem, not her.
Here's another article posted earlier in the thread describing a shirt grab near the stomach and forcible open mouth kiss. The way posters are describing this isn't coming from their own minds or experiences or inferences, it's coming from here.
When you read that you see an image in your head. You have no idea what image anyone else has in his/her head.
When you read that you see an image in your head. You have no idea what image anyone else has in his/her head.
You can't imagine a shirt grab and forced open mouth kiss for what it is? Now you're just making excuses. It blatantly says what happened, in quotes no less. And the language indicates roughness - "grab," "forcible." It's quite simple to "see."
I think most people can understand consent and the cues given by others indicating it. It's a minority who assault others, men or women, sexually, but those people DO deserve consequences. I never see anyone need to ask for consent to kiss or touch their boyfriend/girlfriend or someone they are mutually interested in. Unless one is clueless, mentally ill, or a sociopath I think most people can read cues indicating consent. If someone forcibly kisses someone who was not interested, then yeah they should expect consequences. But it's quite obvious what people want if you actually take the time to read people. I think it's arrogant, entitled guys who don't care who will assault a woman. Rapists, there's more to it, but assault like a forced kiss or unwanted touching, they're just entitled jerks who need to go back to learning basic manners and social cues.
If you need a woman to spell out her consent for you every time you want to do something with her, then it's YOU who has a problem, not her.
Reading cues is just that, it is error prone, otherwise reading cues and spelling out would mean the same thing.
You can't imagine a shirt grab and forced open mouth kiss for what it is? Now you're just making excuses. It blatantly says what happened, in quotes no less. And the language indicates roughness - "grab," "forcible." It's quite simple to "see."
If you don't want to listen to what I'm saying, it's okay with me. I've said it. You've responded. We can both move on.
Reading cues is just that, it is error prone, otherwise reading cues and spelling out would mean the same thing.
If you make a mistake, an error, in any situation, is there not a consequence? So if you make a mistake in judging consent, then should you not face a consequence if that person felt uncomfortable and wishes?
EDIT which by the way is completely off topic for this thread. There is no confusion about consent. It was a dare and he assaulted her.
Yes, let's remember for a second that at any point even when a sexual act was welcomed, one party says "stop" it can be ruled as a sexual assault. This includes cases when the sexual act is not consenting before it is initiated.
Yes, let's remember for a second that at any point even when a sexual act was welcomed, one party says "stop" it can be ruled as a sexual assault. This includes cases when the sexual act is not consenting before it is initiated.
If someone changes their mind (which they are allowed to do) it's only an assault if the other person does not immediately stop like they are asked. Someone with self-control and who cares will stop.
I have a friend who in college was out one night, was plastered, and agreed to go to some guy's car. Right off the bat since she was so drunk this was an iffy situation but nevertheless she agreed. She was ready to have sex in his car until she asked if he had a condom. He said no. She said she didn't want to have sex then. He ignored her and overpowered her and had sex with her anyway. She started crying and was eventually able to get him to stop (he didn't finish but oh did he start and continue) when she threatened to call her friend to come help her, but that was rape. She was raped. She changed her mind for a valid reason and he ignored her.
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