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I would hope that your daughters would slap the snot out of a boy who did something like this. That in my opinion sends a more powerful message than any charges ever could.
I remember to this day the first and only time I got slapped silly by a girl, just for being a jerk, not for touching her or anything. Certainly made an impression on me that's lasted 40 years.
If anyone slapped anyone else silly on school grounds they would be the ones facing consequences.
I think that the differences of opinion here are based in part on what each of us sees in our minds when we read this story. I've been advocating for detention for this boy and not having him go through the legal system. When I read others' descriptions of this boy grabbing the girl by the clothes and jamming his tongue down her throat, I realize that this is not what I've been imagining.
I see a skinny, short boy running up to a girl, planting a kiss on her lips and running off, laughing and embarrassed while the girl stands there dumbfounded. Almost like something in a Norman Rockwell painting. Others, clearly, are picturing different, more invasive, violent scenarios.
And I also realize that my perception is based on something that happened to me while I was in high school. I must have been in 9th or 10th grade and I was doing homework with a friend of a friend who was a year or two older. I suspected he had a crush on me, but I didn't reciprocate. He often helped me with my homework. One day he said, "I'll bet you a quarter I can kiss you on the mouth without touching your lips." I thought about it and said I didn't see how but okay. He told me to close my eyes and I did and he kissed me on the lips. When I opened my eyes, shocked, he smiled and said "You win. Here's a quarter." The kiss was unwanted, but I didn't feel violated in any way.
Without video, we'll never know exactly what happened. But I wonder how many people are basing their opinions on things that happened to them or to people they know. These different perceptions may partly explain the strong differences of opinion.
The only reason the issue should be an in school issue was it happened at school. That other poster who "got his friend wet" wasn't as clear cut and could be attempted drowning incident, a clear crime that could and should be on their record. This at best is a urinating on the side of the road case that shouldn't follow the boy. Shouldn't man that we shouldn't process him and scare him straight because detention and suspension wouldn't do much.
Man oh man, grasping at straws much? <bold>. The kid was pushed into 4 feet of water and even if I tossed him in the middle his head would've been above water. Attempted drowning? Wouldn't one have to try and hold someone under the water? Gotta love jailhouse lawyers...
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
Now 13 year old = mental disorder.
Look, these are not shenannigans. I was 13. I had lost of 13 year old male friends. NO ONE would have thought this was appropriate at any time.
At the time YOU were 13 I'd bet things like this wouldn't have been considered but now? Obviously everyone involved knew it was wrong at some level or there wouldn't have been a dare involved. My whole point is the need to educate all of them exactly how serious this is and could be if done when older. The legal system is ill equipped to do this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlvancouver
And thank goodness you and those that think like you are having less influence on these issues. You were "afraid to to out". These girls are AT SCHOOL. They should be worried about grade 8 science not getting grabbed by the front of their shirt and having a tongue stuck in their mouth while a posse of boys cheer the attacker on. This boy isn't mentally ill, should know better, and acting decisively now may save him and his peers from much more serious punishment later. I guess raping a drunk coed should be dealt with by the colleges since the girls don't remember every element and we wouldn't want to ruin the boys' lives. (because, of course, it should be all about the perpetrator).
A sexual assault where someone grabs you against your will and jams their tongue in your mouth is as much a "kiss" as a rape is "making love". The language implies a consent that was wholly lacking in this case by all accounts.
The fact that your son hangs out with boys that video up girls' skirts (and your description as no big deal or maybe even the girls' fault because they were "twerking' with testosterone filled boys) explains a lot about the kind of kid you're raising and your opinion on punishment. Thank god in this school girls would be better protected from boys like your son.
I never said nor inferred that it was "no big deal", that evidently was the principals opinion though. We were at that dance with a group of other parents as chaperones and were to say the least mortified that this happened and were NOT happy with how it was dealt with. It certainly is NOT the girls fault and I never said or insinuated it was. What I was in fact saying is interactions between boys and girls has gotten more sexual since I was in school as has what these kids see on a daily basis. Would anyone over the age of about 30 have ever imagined that sexting (even as young as 10-11 years old) would be a commonplace/acceptable thing in any kids mind like it is now?
Also, just so you know most parents who chaperoned these dances were appalled at how the boys/girls were "dancing" to the point that the administration finally got the hint and banned the soft porn dancing. Did it stop? Nope, according to our son they'd just form a circle around the kids doing it so adults couldn't see it.
Given my son is autistic and right/wrong are black and white in his mind (no shades of gray) you can't imagine the work that was involved trying to explain all of this to him. He actually came and told US when the picture thing happened and we ratted out the picture taker to the principal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom
If anyone slapped anyone else silly on school grounds they would be the ones facing consequences.
And that is the sad part. There are times when a person no matter what age HAS to stand up for themselves and I as a parent on a couple of occasions have and would back my child to the hilt especially given the situation we're discussing.
This world is getting ridiculous.. Her parents are probably some stuck up rich snobs. This is most definitely not second degree assault.. My god.. I need to go live on my own secluded island away from people like this.
I got flashed by a bum years ago. It scared the **** out of me. He came from behind a building and dropped his pants. I was afraid for awhile to go out by myself. Eventually I started doing so again and everything was good with my world. I wouldn't have wanted this guy arrested. I'd want him to get the help he needed so he didn't do it again. The guy probably had an addiction and/or mental health disorder. Arresting him and throwing him in a cell doesn't help anyone.
You were afraid to go out, and you weren't even touched. You just saw something that upset you. Imagine being touched and how you would feel given your reaction to seeing some homeless probably mentally ill guy merely flash you.
I think that the differences of opinion here are based in part on what each of us sees in our minds when we read this story. I've been advocating for detention for this boy and not having him go through the legal system. When I read others' descriptions of this boy grabbing the girl by the clothes and jamming his tongue down her throat, I realize that this is not what I've been imagining.
I see a skinny, short boy running up to a girl, planting a kiss on her lips and running off, laughing and embarrassed while the girl stands there dumbfounded. Almost like something in a Norman Rockwell painting. Others, clearly, are picturing different, more invasive, violent scenarios.
And I also realize that my perception is based on something that happened to me while I was in high school. I must have been in 9th or 10th grade and I was doing homework with a friend of a friend who was a year or two older. I suspected he had a crush on me, but I didn't reciprocate. He often helped me with my homework. One day he said, "I'll bet you a quarter I can kiss you on the mouth without touching your lips." I thought about it and said I didn't see how but okay. He told me to close my eyes and I did and he kissed me on the lips. When I opened my eyes, shocked, he smiled and said "You win. Here's a quarter." The kiss was unwanted, but I didn't feel violated in any way.
Without video, we'll never know exactly what happened. But I wonder how many people are basing their opinions on things that happened to them or to people they know. These different perceptions may partly explain the strong differences of opinion.
Absolutely. I am going off the second link provided later in this thread which if I recall is a bit more descriptive than "unwanted kiss".
What we also do not know (and is important IMO) is whether this was an incident of bullying. Was the boy a special ed student being egged on by bullies, not understanding simply wanting to fit in? Was the girl a target for a similar reason?
Those are the kinds of things I would expect to come out of an investigation, and why it is too early to know whether the charges (and ultimately the consequences) are appropriate.
Reading this I wonder how USA remains the most promiscuous nation on Earth. Legally, USA is a minefield, especially for males. Giving and interpreting vague attraction clues is a part of the eternal sex game. The guys who ask for a kiss dont go far, even card holding feminists like it really rough from "manly men". Why dont do gooders start doing something about female biology before pussyfying, drugging and terrorizing males into a vegetative state further? Only after women will get hot for the guys asking "Would you be so kind as to allow me to kiss you" we could further emasculate and criminalize young boys' behavior.
And that is the sad part. There are times when a person no matter what age HAS to stand up for themselves and I as a parent on a couple of occasions have and would back my child to the hilt especially given the situation we're discussing.
Except they don't have to do it physically. You're absolutely unequivocally wrong.
Schools have a legal obligation to protect all children from being physically assaulted and it is no more appropriate to expect my daughter to punch someone than it would be to send her to school with a gun. Absolutely absurd.
Standing up for yourself (and others) is expecting that the authorities will ensure this doesn't happen to anyone else. I expect this playground is a much safer place after these charges. And that's a good thing. Your kids school and the chaperones at that dance have done nothing to protect kids when the videoing progresses to the next stage. Wth were there chaperones at all if that was permitted?
Reading this I wonder how USA remains the most promiscuous nation on Earth. Legally, USA is a minefield, especially for males. Giving and interpreting vague attraction clues is a part of the eternal sex game. The guys who ask for a kiss dont go far, even card holding feminists like it really rough from "manly men". Why dont do gooders start doing something about female biology before pussyfying, drugging and terrorizing males into a vegetative state further? Only after women will get hot for the guys asking "Would you be so kind as to allow me to kiss you" we could further emasculate and criminalize young boys' behavior.
I think that the differences of opinion here are based in part on what each of us sees in our minds when we read this story. I've been advocating for detention for this boy and not having him go through the legal system. When I read others' descriptions of this boy grabbing the girl by the clothes and jamming his tongue down her throat, I realize that this is not what I've been imagining.
I see a skinny, short boy running up to a girl, planting a kiss on her lips and running off, laughing and embarrassed while the girl stands there dumbfounded. Almost like something in a Norman Rockwell painting. Others, clearly, are picturing different, more invasive, violent scenarios.
And I also realize that my perception is based on something that happened to me while I was in high school. I must have been in 9th or 10th grade and I was doing homework with a friend of a friend who was a year or two older. I suspected he had a crush on me, but I didn't reciprocate. He often helped me with my homework. One day he said, "I'll bet you a quarter I can kiss you on the mouth without touching your lips." I thought about it and said I didn't see how but okay. He told me to close my eyes and I did and he kissed me on the lips. When I opened my eyes, shocked, he smiled and said "You win. Here's a quarter." The kiss was unwanted, but I didn't feel violated in any way.
Without video, we'll never know exactly what happened. But I wonder how many people are basing their opinions on things that happened to them or to people they know. These different perceptions may partly explain the strong differences of opinion.
Here's another article posted earlier in the thread describing a shirt grab near the stomach and forcible open mouth kiss. The way posters are describing this isn't coming from their own minds or experiences or inferences, it's coming from here.
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Gotta love jailhouse lawyers...
He actually came and told US when the picture thing happened and we ratted out the picture taker to the principal.