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I don't know many women who'd go out into the middle of nowhere with a guy they have even the slightest doubts about. Around town or something? Maybe. But not out there.
Sounds to me like they had a lot of trust and a good friendship.
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why do you think this guy decided to go out into this horrible desert and then get lost when he knew the paths with this woman he really wanted?
Well, the desert is one of the most gorgeous places I've ever been. I try to get out to the Southwest parks/wilderness areas as often as I can, and I've introduced plenty of others to it as well.
However, the desert can be very dangerous and it's not like a cliff where that danger is blatantly obvious to even the inexperienced. The dangers don't become apparent to the inexperienced until they've happened and their life is at risk. They notice they didn't pack enough water when they're dehydrated and miles from a water source. They notice how difficult it is to orient yourself even just a few hundred feet off trail without a topographic map and compass only once they're already lost.
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And then he shot her and then he shot himself? I'm truly curious, why you think he did that.
Presumably because dying of dehydration or other injuries is a slow, painful death?
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When two weeks previous he knew the way out.
This is not how getting lost works. He probably just knew to follow the trail. If you took a wrong turn or hiked off-trail to see something, and then realize you're lost, you're in trouble even though you might have hiked the regular trail many times.
I find myself much more prone to making pathfinding mistakes when hiking with others rather than solo. You're talking and having a good time and missed that trail sign/turn. That friend wants to go climb up those rocks you can see over there. And so on. Easy to be distracted in a way that you're not when alone.
I carry proper maps, a compass, extra supplies and have learned how to orient myself, so it's not a big deal on the rare occasions where I make those sorts of mistakes. But in my experience 90%+ of day hikers carry that, and even a good 50% of the overnight backpackers don't. (The multi-day ones usually are properly equipped at least).
As a person dies from dehydration, his or her mouth dries out and becomes caked or coated with thick material; lips become parched and cracked; the tongue swells and could crack; eyes recede back into their orbits; cheeks become hollow; lining of the nose might crack and cause the nose to bleed; skin begins to hang loose on the body and becomes dry and scaly; urine would become highly concentrated, leading to burning of the bladder; lining of the stomach dries out, likely causing the person to experience dry heaves and vomiting; body temperature can become very high; brain cells dry out, causing convulsions; respiratory tract also dries out causing thick secretions that could plug the lungs and cause death. At some point the person’s major organs, including the lungs, heart, and brain give out and death occurs.
I clicked that link and it's a KTLA splash page. The right-side column has a link to an article about the hikers. I clicked that link but couldn't find the comments. Can you give me some guidance, Ruth. Thanks
OK, the layout has changed from yesterday, so it took me a lot of searching through those different article links, to find the comment section I read yesterday that held the additional link to a small local paper somewhere around the national park. The sentence about him going on a reconnaissance trip to the park 2 weeks earlier is halfway down the page.
The more I read about it, the less it makes sense. They were found "far" off the north loop of the trail. Why would they be so far off the trail? They were NOT in a canyon just below the trail, as one might expect if she'd fallen off the trail. They had walked a considerable distance away from the north of the trail deliberately. There was absolutely no reason to go off-trail, and he knew the terrain, he was familiar with it already. So it looks like he lead her away from the park, through rough terrain, through big boulders. They were outside the park boundary, at that point, and the size of the boulders obscured them from anyone's sightline. It looks like he didn't want them to be found.
This doesn't sound like a case of lost hikers or an injured hiker to me. He knew the way back to the parking lot, because he'd walked the route 2 weeks earlier. . There was no reason to take her off the trail. Even if she'd legitimately injured herself, the quickest way to get help would have been to stay on the trail and return to the parking lot.
To add a bit more detail that I gleaned from the comments: they were about 2 miles north of the trail. From there, it's only 2 more miles to a residential area, straight ahead in the direction in which they'd been walking. This thing is so obviously a set-up. This was no accident.
edit: here's an article linked earlier by another poster. It also says Orbeso was out there 2 weeks earlier, and gives more info about the terrain. It looks like his dad searched for him in the area of the boulders, judging by the photo, but I don't know if that's the same area where they were found.
It says the Maze Loop trail is a rough hike, not an easy trail. Why go out on a challenging hike, where climbing over rock formations is required, in 100-degree heat -- it makes no sense. The trail is only 4.8 miles. If it were a smooth trail, 4.8 mi. would be doable in maybe an hour and 1/2, in favorable weather. Yet somehow, they were out there for about 4 hours, roughly estimating between the time they arrived and when his phone (not hers, according to his dad) sent a "ping", without completing the loop. The article says it's not hard for hikers to get lost, but he seemed to know that, because he was out there checking it out a couple of weeks earlier. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ree/558185001/
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 10-24-2017 at 01:34 PM..
To add a bit more detail that I gleaned from the comments: they were about 2 miles north of the trail. From there, it's only 2 more miles to a residential area, straight ahead in the direction in which they'd been walking. This thing is so obviously a set-up. This was no accident.
Sshhh, even if evidence points to spurned lover turned murderer and suicide as one possibility, you must not suggest anything unbecoming here lest you be labeled as an unfeeling monster.
More info: trail description. One site rates it as a "moderate" trail. The linked site here says it's a trail used by experienced runners. Gives a detailed walker's-eye-description of it.
Sshhh, even if evidence points to spurned lover turned murderer and suicide as one possibility, you must not suggest anything unbecoming here lest you be labeled as an unfeeling monster.
Well, to be more accurate, I have to add that the 4 miles from the north loop of the trail to the nearest residential area did go through a rough zone of major boulders to climb over, for part of the route. So it wasn't a stroll to the residential area. Still, why would he take her through there? Why go off what has been described as a popular jogging trail of moderate difficulty, into an area more appropriate for rock climbers? Remember--at that point she was injured, or became injured while struggling over those boulders, which is where she met her end.
No one in their right mind would veer off into terrain like that, in 100-degree heat, and not being experienced high-difficulty-level hikers/climbers, unless they had motives other than to enjoy a fun birthday hike.
I'm sorry, people; back before we knew specifics about the trail and the surrounding terrain and where they were found, it was easy to speculate in their favor, and say, "well maybe they got disoriented in the heat", and so forth. But with all this additional info, it really doesn't look so innocent. Especially considering he'd scoped it all out in advance. IMHO, anyway.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 10-24-2017 at 01:57 PM..
To add a bit more detail that I gleaned from the comments: they were about 2 miles north of the trail. From there, it's only 2 more miles to a residential area, straight ahead in the direction in which they'd been walking. This thing is so obviously a set-up. This was no accident.
Many people have died in the desert less than two miles from help. So that does not prove your point.
Example, the French couple who died hiking at White Sands National Monument was 1.5 miles from the trailhead. The woman gave up the hike to return to their car. She made it 100 yards before she dropped dead. Her husband became delirious and continued on with her son for another 2000 feet before he collapsed and died. Their son who had gotten most of their water was rescued about four hours after they started the hike. That's way less time then these two were out there.
So regardless of what you think, that's the way things happen in the desert. It's not a set up.
Many people have died in the desert less than two miles from help. So that does not prove your point.
Example, the French couple who died hiking at White Sands National Monument was 1.5 miles from the trailhead. The woman gave up the hike to return to their car. She made it 100 yards before she dropped dead. Her husband became delirious and continued on with her son for another 2000 feet before he collapsed and died. Their son who had gotten most of their water was rescued about four hours after they started the hike. That's way less time then these two were out there.
So regardless of what you think, that's the way things happen in the desert. It's not a set up.
OK, but they were closer to the parking lot, when they were on the north loop of the trail, than to a housing development 4 miles off the north of the trail, through almost impassable terrain. So why'd the head off through those boulders, instead of walking back to the car? They still had water at that point, because they took their water bottles with them, when they left the trail. Same with their food.
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