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I don’t know any adult vaper that doesn’t use the non-tobacco flavors. This insistence that they are only for marketing to teens is absurd and made by people who clearly have no direct experience with vapers and vape stores.
I tried vaping and personally enjoyed the tea flavors best. For me, it didn’t work to quit smoking, so I stopped. I enjoyed it, but felt I might end up more addicted to nicotine than I started because it is so easy and non-stinky. I also found it just as expensive as smoking as various parts of the e-cigs would break and need regular replacement. The only thing that worked (for me) to quit smoking was getting pregnant. I know this solution is not for everyone.
As is water. That doesn't mean water is particularly dangerous. Or maybe it is. Deaths from nicotine poisoning are pretty darn rare so maybe water is relatively dangerous.
I don’t know any adult vaper that doesn’t use the non-tobacco flavors. This insistence that they are only for marketing to teens is absurd and made by people who clearly have no direct experience with vapers and vape stores.
I tried vaping and personally enjoyed the tea flavors best. For me, it didn’t work to quit smoking, so I stopped. I enjoyed it, but felt I might end up more addicted to nicotine than I started because it is so easy and non-stinky. I also found it just as expensive as smoking as various parts of the e-cigs would break and need regular replacement. The only thing that worked (for me) to quit smoking was getting pregnant. I know this solution is not for everyone.
The problem is until about a week ago when the heat was getting to Juul, Juul marketed heavily towards teens. Teens use the gamut of social media and a lot of the marketing was towards teens. Granted teens include those of legal age (18/19) but still it includes impressionable 14, 15, 16, 17 year olds. The imagery and celebrities used were basically a Joe Camel for today.
I don’t know any adult vaper that doesn’t use the non-tobacco flavors. This insistence that they are only for marketing to teens is absurd and made by people who clearly have no direct experience with vapers and vape stores.
I tried vaping and personally enjoyed the tea flavors best. For me, it didn’t work to quit smoking, so I stopped. I enjoyed it, but felt I might end up more addicted to nicotine than I started because it is so easy and non-stinky. I also found it just as expensive as smoking as various parts of the e-cigs would break and need regular replacement. The only thing that worked (for me) to quit smoking was getting pregnant. I know this solution is not for everyone.
Neither do I... I've spent a fair amount of time at a vape store (they are setup like a lounge) and I almost rarely see anyone buying just tobacco flavored vape.
Cigarettes do not taste like Cigars. The tobacco flavored vapes are targeting cigar smokers (like me). For the most part, cigar smokers are going to smoke cigars for that flavor and I do on occasion. The only tobacco flavored vapes that are selling are the ones that are in themselves a combination with other flavors such as vanilla, nut, and mint/menthol. The vast majority of people moving from cigarettes to vape as an alternative aren't looking for tobacco flavored vapes.
But arm chair experts and critics will deny anything that doesn't backup their views even if they themselves have zero experience.
The problem is until about a week ago when the heat was getting to Juul, Juul marketed heavily towards teens. Teens use the gamut of social media and a lot of the marketing was towards teens. Granted teens include those of legal age (18/19) but still it includes impressionable 14, 15, 16, 17 year olds. The imagery and celebrities used were basically a Joe Camel for today.
Can you provide links?
I'm trying to understand what it means to be "targeted heavily towards teens".
Pretty much every product is marketed on social media these days and/or use celebrity endorsements.... You can't market something without it crossing within view of teens... it doesn't necessarily mean it is targeting them, nor does it mean that it the bar that prompts government oversight.
Parenting is the key.... not nanny state legislature.
I think it is reasonable to put vape regulation on par with current state of tobacco products regulation.... Even then... cigarettes still find its way into under age hands... they aren't stupid.
I'm trying to understand what it means to be "targeted heavily towards teens".
Pretty much every product is marketed on social media these days and/or use celebrity endorsements.... You can't market something without it crossing within view of teens... it doesn't necessarily mean it is targeting them, nor does it mean that it the bar that prompts government oversight.
Parenting is the key.... not nanny state legislature.
I think it is reasonable to put vape regulation on par with current state of tobacco products regulation.... Even then... cigarettes still find its way into under age hands... they aren't stupid.
It came from a pair of Philip DeFranco shows on vape/e-cig regulations. I've shown it before and I think previously to your posts actually. The social media and imagery with celebrity endorsements as seen in the original Friday standalone topic video, seems like it was far more directed towards teens than the "excuse" of "Well, we vape to ween off of cigarettes, cigar, etc." (Note for clarification: I don't fully disagree that it is an "excuse" but many see it as one and anyone can claim anything online and it isn't wrong until someone is outted especially in regards to opinion.) As seen in the later update to the story in the second video, Juul actually changed their marketing prior to government deciding what and where intervention is necessary (which I've stated time and time again in the two threads on this topic.)
Now yes, we can argue if social media is for teens or the general public. I would argue that say Instagram and Snapchat are more teen/young adult orientated and I think that wouldn't be argued too much. Granted Instagram is getting more and more used by people of all ages, it is still largely youth heavy with pictures and short videos. Many celebrities do paid social media posts for sponsors or even post without it being one. I think the Kardashians/Jenners have gotten flack for these posts in the past whether on Instagram or Twitter. This too has been covered on the Phillip DeFranco show several times when any of these cause celebs happen around "free advertising" on a person's social media feed and what is a paid post and what isn't.
As mentioned before the celebrity aspect is huge especially for today's youth. Mostly due to how close communities are in part due to social media. I mean let's say Kim Kardashian or her sister Kylie Jenner posts a video about them vaping and promoting a company (whether paid or free advertising.) Their audience is largely teens whether legal at 18/19 or a minor at 14/15/16/17. I think this point wouldn't be argued too much either. Now the issue is do these posts on social media turn into clicks and purchases. Sometimes especially with celebrities, it is more effective I think there was a study (that was talked about on yet another DeFranco show) that people are more likely are to buy if a celebrity tweet than a normal tweet) though it is often either bogged down in the feed or lost in a shouting match of ads like in Ralph Breaks the Internet. I mean I saw today on a post about a free razor that people whether they were paid or not posted about other razors and I also saw several others from competitors as well today after that.
I would like if government didn't have to butt in, but I think they should on a few things.
Firstly, I don't know how common nicotine is in the flavored juices that are popular with the youth vapers that are causing the government scrutiny. I haven't bought any vape/e-cig, the one time I was around it for an extended period I got sick from it (I posted about this a few times over the years and I got sick within 10 minutes of it and it was the only new factor that was introduced so Occam's Razor points to that.) So because of my n00b tendencies to vape, I can't tell you if packaging says how much nicotine is in it and if it falls under a "Near Beer" or non-alcoholic beer territory if it is under a certain amount. I think we can all say that having a nicotine rating and figuring out what nicotine free really means. Whether that comes from government or big tobbaco, I think we can agree this is something that needs to be clearly defined.
Secondly, I think similarly to the Joe Camel references I've made, I think marketing on social media has to be tightened up. And this is not just in vape's specific case, but the previously announced celebrity posts should be noted as paid when they are in fact paid. As I said before, if they are vaping in a Tweeted pic, a Snap update or Instagram feed, it might not always be paid and that muddies it, but there are others (like one in the first DeFranco video I linked in this thread.
Third, I realize that parents either are ignorant or just plain don't care to watch their kids until it is too late. I agree that parenting is key, but parents don't seem to be like being parents. It is far easier to be a friend and allow things or not discipline kids than it is to discipline them. I see this as an educator. At some point someone has to step in and sadly it's the "nanny state" argument that wins.
Here is an interesting study in 'Psychiatry News': https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.o...pi.pn.2018.1b2. They claim: "About 13 percent of 8th graders, 24 percent of 10th graders, and nearly 28 percent of 12th graders at U.S. schools reported using a vaping device in the past year, according to data from the 2017 Monitoring the Future (MTF) survey. The survey results, which were released in December 2017, found that while most of these students said they mostly vape flavoring liquids, 1 in 10 reported vaping nicotine, and 1 in 20 reported vaping marijuana."
The study did have some promising news about a slight drop in opioid use. It still bothers me about this 'distraction' in our schools. It is hard to see where it is all heading.
Here is an interesting study in 'Psychiatry News': https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.o...pi.pn.2018.1b2. They claim: "About 13 percent of 8th graders, 24 percent of 10th graders, and nearly 28 percent of 12th graders at U.S. schools reported using a vaping device in the past year, according to data from the 2017 Monitoring the Future (MTF) survey. The survey results, which were released in December 2017, found that while most of these students said they mostly vape flavoring liquids, 1 in 10 reported vaping nicotine, and 1 in 20 reported vaping marijuana."
The study did have some promising news about a slight drop in opioid use. It still bothers me about this 'distraction' in our schools. It is hard to see where it is all heading.
I would say those numbers are probably a little higher, mainly because a lot of kids that age, are not going to be totally honest about using these kinds of substances.
7th/8th grade is around the time I started smoking cigarettes, so its probably not much different than it was in the 80s.
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Nicotine is poison. 
