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I didn't start smoking cigars until I was in college. Yeh.. I know... I'm the exception but you did say "nobody". My much younger brother does smoke cigarettes though... starting in H.S.
Marketing though.... I would agree that we should restrict it and prevent the youth from being a target audience. What I do disagree on is the notion that the existence of sweet flavors is a reason for that target audience due to some unfounded notion that only sweet flavors are enjoyed by the youth.
If it is so unfounded that youth are attracted to the sweet flavors, show actual proof and nothing anecdotal. Ok open to being wrong, just not wrong because two posters say anyone they know like the sweet juices and they aren't teens.
So you think it is OK to have teenagers smoke just because I helps keeps the industry going? You realize how bad that sounds right?
Teenagers are the next generation of adults.
Im 44 yrs old, I started smoking around 12-13 yrs old, none of the tobacco advertising had any impact on my decision though, it was mostly due to some older friends in the neighborhood, I wanted to look older and to look 'cool'.
Im not saying its ok to have teenagers smoking for the sake of the tobacco industry, but that is pretty much whats going on, they are like any other industry, they need to attract new lifelong customers...most people start using tobacco in their early to mid teens....how else can the industry survive?
Im curious to hear from anyone who has stock in tobacco companies and how they feel about this, on one hand they naturally want their investment to pay up, but unfortunately that means lots of people need to pick up the habit.
If it is so unfounded that youth are attracted to the sweet flavors, show actual proof and nothing anecdotal. Ok open to being wrong, just not wrong because two posters say anyone they know like the sweet juices and they aren't teens.
No one is saying that....
What is unfounded is that sweet flavors only target youth and draw on the conclusion that adults only go for tobacco flavored flavors. If you search online for companies' offerings and reviews, you'll find that the vast majority of the popular flavors that adult vape smokers are sweet, fruity, etc... The tobacco flavored ones are vastly outnumbered by others AND non-tobacco flavored juices are usually ranked/reviewed higher/more often.
People's assertion otherwise are from those that obviously have zero experience and thus even two posters who do smoke vape have more credibility. Curious? Just go into any credible vape store and ask which vape juices are the best selling.
This is like saying that only sweet liquors, deserts, candies are enjoyed by the youth and not by adults... totally illogical.
We could stop subsidizing it as a nation, but, you know, jobsssss...
Not really. If you're near a pack of smokes, look at the bottom of it. You see that little stamp label? That's a tax stamp. One company provides all 50 states with those little stamps. Over a decade ago they were doing it with fewer than 50 employees. Forecasting was easy. Take last year's number and decrease it about 3% a year. Now, that isn't necessarily that there were 3% fewer smokers, that was 3% fewer packs being sold.
Those jobs may exist, but the company was sold to a Swiss outfit.
Our guess was that were many fewer multiple pack a day smokers in the young generation and a lot more casual closet smokers.
It's no longer considered cool. People buy products to cover the smell. They don't let others know that they smoke on occasion. Using THC has become much more acceptable here than tobacco.
I completely welcome the FDA regulations. I go off/on regarding smoking. I went and bought a kit, but realized there was a lot of lung expansion drug that went with the nicoteine. The last thing I wanted was two addictions, so never really used it. The guy selling it swore between hacks that it was safe. Google wet lung.
If there was a less smelly way to smoke that didn't cause harm to others, that would be great. I enjoyed smoking. I could go decades between drinks and don't forsee using drugs ever again, but I liked having a smoke.
If data was produced I would know whether to believe that the flavored vape let alone flavored vape with no nicotine is preferred by those who aren't teens/young adults.
You know very well that official data is only collected when someone is funding it.... So I ask, why don't you show data otherwise. Personal experience and knowing the market vs knowing absolutely nothing but speculation.
I'm not the unknowledgeable you are... nothing I will say will convince you otherwise so why don't you do your own research.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't improve how these items can be marketed to exclude the youth. We absolutely should when reasonable. Regulations should be updated accordingly. What I'm saying is that simply having flavors is an indication of targeting youth is as absurd as saying sweet liquor is only targeting the young age group.
We know sweet products are enjoyed by everyone. So if the assertion is that vape juices don't fall in line, onus on those saying otherwise to show data saying so.
"Analyzing the results of online surveys from 20,836 adults in the US who frequently use e-cigarettes, they found that people’s first e-cigarette purchases have dramatically shifted away from tobacco and menthol toward fruity flavors. Before 2011, 17.8 percent of respondents’ first e-cigarette purchases were fruity flavors, but between June 2015 and June 2016 that number increased to 33.5 percent. During the same time period, the proportion of first-time purchasers that bought tobacco or menthol flavors dropped from 46 percent before 2011 to 24 percent between 2015 and 2016. Out of all the survey respondents, 15,807 (75.9 percent) reported they’d completely switched from smoking to vaping.
These numbers, write the study’s authors, show that people who have used e-cigarettes to completely quit smoking are more and more likely to be interested in non-tobacco and non-menthol flavors. For this reason, they argue that fruity flavors could be a crucial part of helping adults quit smoking. This argument is completely at odds with the opinions that public health experts have about fruity vape flavors."
"They discovered fruity flavors were most common, (offered by 84 percent of brands) followed by "dessert/candy" (80 percent), alcohol/drinks (77 percent), and then snacks/meals (25 percent). But are the wide variety of flavors appealing to kids?
.....
But the study points out—as I have before—that*banning flavored juice would likely wind up just benefiting the big tobacco companies*that don't offer flavor options and have the "financial backing" to go through the expensive approval process. If those brand dominate the market, it continued, it may actually increase users' chances of picking up the smoking habit, because those cigalike products are more similar to tobacco smokes than the newer vape mods"
Im 44 yrs old, I started smoking around 12-13 yrs old, none of the tobacco advertising had any impact on my decision though, it was mostly due to some older friends in the neighborhood, I wanted to look older and to look 'cool'.
Im not saying its ok to have teenagers smoking for the sake of the tobacco industry, but that is pretty much whats going on, they are like any other industry, they need to attract new lifelong customers...most people start using tobacco in their early to mid teens....how else can the industry survive?
Im curious to hear from anyone who has stock in tobacco companies and how they feel about this, on one hand they naturally want their investment to pay up, but unfortunately that means lots of people need to pick up the habit.
I agree that the cool kids were one of the best ways to "market" tobacco and in a way, I'm sure at some point Marlboro Man was "cool" as was smoking in a military uniform. I can see it didn't effect you but I also remember Joe Camel as a kid because not only did my dad smoke Camels until about 1995, but they also sponsored Supervisors and USHRA's Mud and Monsters (truck) series, just as I remember Red man, Social and Copenhagen chew as a kid due to their motorsports involvement. Now besides the Mud and Monsters series, none were really promoted towards kids.
Part of the issue with Juul was a higher tobacco content and the size is appealing as it can be concealed. It also helps that it looks like a USB stick. The other was their ads were modern hip and appealing to kids. This was after the FDA raided them in a surprise visit. The big problem is that Juul has a semi regular part that can be interchanged with those like Eon Smoke that used famous people and those that have big Instagram followings. You know, the cool kids. Except these cool kids aren't a cartoon camel or a rancher.
usayit, I'm just going to ask that with the Juul end of sales for the flavors, why did they cut sales except for the 21+ crowd who buys it online? Is that reactionary or is that because they do realize the youth market gets in that way or what. As I said before it would be nice to see a study for this and who exactly buys the fruity flavors. I am warming up to that idea that the fruity flavors are universal, but I think the Juul issue shows that it is also appeasing to teens or at best a feel good measure. I'm sure you think it is feel good, but right now we don't due to no true studies into it.
usayit, I'm just going to ask that with the Juul end of sales for the flavors, why did they cut sales except for the 21+ crowd who buys it online? Is that reactionary or is that because they do realize the youth market gets in that way or what. As I said before it would be nice to see a study for this and who exactly buys the fruity flavors. I am warming up to that idea that the fruity flavors are universal, but I think the Juul issue shows that it is also appeasing to teens or at best a feel good measure. I'm sure you think it is feel good, but right now we don't due to no true studies into it.
Not sure... I don't smoke Juul haven't really kept up with the small pod based systems.
I did a quick search and it seems that the issue isn't necessarily the flavors offered but rather they got caught with a marketing strategy that targeted that young audience.
"But critics and public health advocates said the company had no choice, especially after the F.D.A. seized documents related to marketing strategies from the company’s headquarters last month, and while some states were investigating whether its tactics were directly aimed at minors."
Here's my concern though.... are we going to ban every product that adults enjoy intended for adults just because teenagers also picked it up? How long before flavored alcohol drinks and gambling? How about tobacco? Are we so irrational about the issue that we are about to legalize Marijuana but ban Vape? Similar to guns, banning wouldn't solve illegal sales to minors but rather be effective at taking choices away from legal adult individuals.
I'm neither a liberal nor conservative but isn't this counter to the idea of big government? nanny state?
I do agree with some of the things being considered... strengthen online age verification being one and elimination of marketing through social media. Limiting endorsements from celebrities. I'd even support limiting sales to vape stores. That in of itself will strengthen age verification as loosing a license to sell vape would mean the end of the store itself (unlike a gas station chain).
Now for how personally feel on this....
Why all the pressure on the new-kid-on-the-block vape products and not tobacco? After all, the average starting age for a cigarette smoker is age 13. So young/teenagers smoking isn't anything new... but vaping is definitely new. If you recall statistics show that cigarette smoking is on a decline. You also have the articles I linked earlier that link flavorings as a possible key ingredient for smokers leaving cigarettes to vaping. Another one even went as far as concluded that banning flavorings in vape is actually favorable to the main competitor.. cigarette manufacturers.
So now ask yourself.... Who has had strong influences in government through lobbying and big money resources to execute?
"In September of 1937, hemp prohibition began. Arguably the most useful plant known to man has become illegal to grow and use both in its non THC strain and THC strain called marihuana. To this day, this plant is still illegal to grow in the United States.
To the public, Congress banned hemp because it was said to be a violent and dangerous drug. In reality, Hemp does nothing more than act as an amazing resource to virtually any industry and any product. As you can imagine, this was also a big reason for the ban of Hemp as it was a serious threat to many of the big industries out there. At the time it was mainly plastics, oil and paper"
Not sure... I don't smoke Juul haven't really kept up with the small pod based systems.
I did a quick search and it seems that the issue isn't necessarily the flavors offered but rather they got caught with a marketing strategy that targeted that young audience.
"But critics and public health advocates said the company had no choice, especially after the F.D.A. seized documents related to marketing strategies from the company’s headquarters last month, and while some states were investigating whether its tactics were directly aimed at minors."
Here's my concern though.... are we going to ban every product that adults enjoy intended for adults just because teenagers also picked it up? How long before flavored alcohol drinks and gambling? How about tobacco? Are we so irrational about the issue that we are about to legalize Marijuana but ban Vape? Similar to guns, banning wouldn't solve illegal sales to minors but rather be effective at taking choices away from legal adult individuals.
I'm neither a liberal nor conservative but isn't this counter to the idea of big government? nanny state?
I do agree with some of the things being considered... strengthen online age verification being one and elimination of marketing through social media. I'd even support limiting sales to vape stores. That in of itself will strengthen age verification as loosing a license to sell vape would mean the end of the store itself (unlike a gas station chain).
Now for how personally feel on this....
Why all the pressure on the new-kid-on-the-block vape products and not tobacco? After all, the average starting age for a cigarette smoker is age 13. So young/teenagers smoking isn't anything new... but vaping is definitely new. If you recall statistics show that cigarette smoking is on a decline. You also have the articles I linked earlier that link flavorings as a possible key ingredient for smokers leaving cigarettes to vaping. Another one even went as far as concluded that banning flavorings in vape is actually favorable to the main competitor.. cigarette manufacturers.
So now ask yourself.... Who has had strong influences in government through lobbying and big money resources to execute?
Juul has a new counter top display unit with a 6" LED screen, and has a video playing on loop, it is aimed at teenagers and features very young looking teens in the video, they instruct viewers to download an app and they can get an instant 50% off Juul products at the cash register!
We have them in all of my 42 stores, and they have been great for JUUL, we are constantly selling out now.
JUUL isnt the only company to do this though, LOGIC has a similar countertop display, aimed at young teens, they just revamped their packaging to appeal to teens, RJ Reynolds has BLU, CIRO, etc too, which also have their own POS marketing.
Juul has a new counter top display unit with a 6" LED screen, and has a video playing on loop, it is aimed at teenagers and features very young looking teens in the video, they instruct viewers to download an app and they can get an instant 50% off Juul products at the cash register!
We have them in all of my 42 stores, and they have been great for JUUL, we are constantly selling out now.
JUUL isnt the only company to do this though, LOGIC has a similar countertop display, aimed at young teens, they just revamped their packaging to appeal to teens, RJ Reynolds has BLU, CIRO, etc too, which also have their own POS marketing.
I never noticed... I rarely go into a gas station/convenience store (in NJ we don't even need to leave the car to get gas pumped). I don't smoke small pod systems but rather tank systems which are the most part only available in vape stores (or online).
However, yeh... kinda backs what I was thinking. That the primary motivation isn't so much the existence of flavors but rather their marketing strategy targeting the audience. I'd be ok with limiting that type of marketing....especially in a store that may not e a reliable check on age.
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