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Old 01-15-2020, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,939,565 times
Reputation: 3805

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post

A VAT alone will not cover the UBI no way
Your right it won't you should look at Yangs plan. https://www.yang2020.com/ I'd also recommend you read his book the War on Normal People to see why UBI is not only necessary but the only way forward.
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Croatia and Worldwideweb
934 posts, read 402,454 times
Reputation: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude View Post
I see Yang missed the debate.

That about does it for his campaign I think.
If you think debates are be all and end all, it may seem so.

However,

More and more Americans come to realize that there are three on this stage too old for the job, with the youngest among them not being a high moral authority she's been trying to paint herself as

Then it will be Buttigieg vs Yang. Yang wins, because he has better plans and more charisma. And is a better person anyway.
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:20 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,359 posts, read 14,303,260 times
Reputation: 10080
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
UBI is not only necessary but the only way forward.
You see, when you start to use language like this, it starts smelling like a stupid ideology, an arrogantly human control mechanism.

Already "UBI" is sounding like an empty partisan slogan.

Now, "normal people" do need help and some income supports - better yet, work subsidies - are possibly a good idea, certainly thinking in the right direction, but any such policy would need to be tweaked and we do not need some stupid jargon and ideological absolutes for people to get behind it.

It has to be pragmatic and pass the sausage grinder test.
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,939,565 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
You see, when you start to use language like this, it starts smelling like a stupid ideology, an arrogantly human control mechanism.

Already "UBI" is starting to sound like an empty partisan slogan.

Now, "normal people" do need help and some income supports - better yet, work subsidies - are possibly a good idea, certainly thinking in the right direction, but any such policy would need to be tweaked and we do not need some stupid jargon and ideological absolutes for people to get behind it.

It has to be pragmatic and pass the sausage grinder test.
Fair enough I should have said the only positive and moderate way forward. UBI is a moderate policy that will alleviate many problems that automation is going to bring. The Radical Left and Right both hate UBI for different reasons but as a centrist policy it will be excellent at holding the USA together. But you really should read Yangs book he brings the data and the reasons for why a UBI is a good idea.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:32 AM
 
29,445 posts, read 14,635,166 times
Reputation: 14423
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Your right it won't you should look at Yangs plan. https://www.yang2020.com/ I'd also recommend you read his book the War on Normal People to see why UBI is not only necessary but the only way forward.
I did go and look through his plan. What the hell is a Carbon tax, and whom will be paying that ?

Again, show me how this will be saving my family money. All I see is a bunch of promises and some fluff on how it will be paid for. Where are the details ?

I'm a design engineer, by nature I have to nit pick every little detail....that's where it matters.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,939,565 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
I did go and look through his plan. What the hell is a Carbon tax, and whom will be paying that ?

Again, show me how this will be saving my family money. All I see is a bunch of promises and some fluff on how it will be paid for. Where are the details ?

I'm a design engineer, by nature I have to nit pick every little detail....that's where it matters.
A carbon tax is paid by large polluters as a way to incentivize them to invest in green energy or reduce emissions. Unless you spend around 10k a month you won't feel the VAT tax at all you and your wife will be getting 24k a year on top of what you earn through the UBI. This would supercharge the economy and would especially help depressed rural areas. Also I appreciate the questions although I would really recommend his book or some long form interviews. If your interested I could send you a private message with a couple long interviews where Yang gets really into the weeds of his policy.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:22 AM
 
9,909 posts, read 7,693,961 times
Reputation: 2494
Yang's policies have a Libertarian tone to them

Only thing has someone mentioned if they tweak the UBI. I do feel individuals should still be eligible for SNAP ($1500 max a month/$300 per person), SSDI ($3K a month to head of household income restrictions of $40K or less), WIC ($1000 max for those making under $50K), SSI (should be opitional contribution for all U.S. Citizens), and VA financial assistance (should be $3K a month no income restrictions for those who qualify).

Keep yearly child credit for U.S. Citizens making $100K or less a year and $5K given out yearly.

Raise the UBI to $1500 in ten years
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,939,565 times
Reputation: 3805
I actually think SNAP in particular is a bad program and having the recipients forgo it for UBI makes for sense. Same with anyone receiving disability for under 1000 a month.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
14,834 posts, read 7,409,947 times
Reputation: 8966
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchtoecig View Post
If you think debates are be all and end all, it may seem so.

However,

More and more Americans come to realize that there are three on this stage too old for the job, with the youngest among them not being a high moral authority she's been trying to paint herself as

Then it will be Buttigieg vs Yang. Yang wins, because he has better plans and more charisma. And is a better person anyway.
I wasn’t saying debates are the end all.

I was saying the fact that Yang couldn’t even crack the 5% required to appear in the debate is evidence that he certainly does not have the 15% required to win any delegates in the primaries, therefore virtually no chance to actually become the nominee.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:26 AM
 
29,445 posts, read 14,635,166 times
Reputation: 14423
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Fair enough I should have said the only positive and moderate way forward. UBI is a moderate policy that will alleviate many problems that automation is going to bring. The Radical Left and Right both hate UBI for different reasons but as a centrist policy it will be excellent at holding the USA together. But you really should read Yangs book he brings the data and the reasons for why a UBI is a good idea.

This is why my skepticism runs high on this UBI topic. I've been in the manufacturing arena for over 30 years, my father had 40 plus years before that. We've all heard the fear and drama about automation which pretty much started in the 70's. Hell, I did a year and a half at Fanuc robotics before getting into design.
I know my dad had to evolve, early on in his career since he started off as a spot welder, he evolved with changes and ended up in skilled trades maintaining and repairing the automation that had replaced him.

And in my 30 years, I've once yet met someone that lost their job due to being replaced by a robot. I've known plenty that have lost their jobs do to the company shutting their doors and being offshored.

Now don't get me wrong, automation definitely effects the "screw installing" labor job, and if all one wants to be in life is a "screw installer" then yes...they better worry. But automation isn't some new big bad devil that is going to lay waste to the entire job market. Will it replace the lowest parts of the job market sure, but all that will do is force one to evolve with it.

I started out drawing on a board with a pencil. Had I not changed with the times I'd be obsolete. Now every year new softwares come out that pertain to my job. If I don't keep up on that , I'll be obsolete.

I'm also not in the camp that believes we lost many of our great paying job to automation, I know the truth on that, I saw job after job being offshored. I had to roll with that as well, just to stay employed.

I'll do some more research on Yang, he does make more sense than the other candidates but in the end I will still be voting GOP.
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