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Grandfather clause. The grandfather clause allowed the first presidents to have parents who were originally non-U.S. citizens. It has a basis in logic. With no grandfather clause for the initial run of Presidents, then no one could have been elected President until 1823 (35 years after ratification) because they would have to wait for a newborn to grow old enough.
Yup. That takes care of them.
Now care to try to explain these 4?
James Buchanan (Irish father)
Chester Arthur (Irish father)
Woodrow Wilson (Engliish mother);
and Herbert Hoover (Canadian mother)
I've been tracking genealogy just in case one of them was born overseas but to a pair of American citizens or something.
Nope. Not a U.S. citizen among James Buchanan, Sr., William MacArthur, Jesse Woodrow, and Hulda(h) Hoover.
Happy searching - you might warn your friend, Att'y Donofrio that there are FOUR precedents against his theory, now.
James Buchanan (Irish father)
Chester Arthur (Irish father)
Woodrow Wilson (Engliish mother);
and Herbert Hoover (Canadian mother)
I've been tracking genealogy just in case one of them was born overseas but to a pair of American citizens or something.
Nope. Not a U.S. citizen among James Buchanan, Sr., William MacArthur, Jesse Woodrow, and Hulda(h) Hoover.
Happy searching - you might warn your friend, Att'y Donofrio that there are FOUR precedents against his theory, now.
The Founders did not create the meaning of Natural Born. They used the term already in existence and well known already to use as a qualification for the Office of President. And just for the President.
No person who was born a Natural Citizen needs even a single law to make him/her a citizen. The law can only recognize the natural born citizen, it cannot create one as only nature can do that. And is why its called "Natural Born Citizen". No law is involved in giving that person anything concerning his citizenship. He is born with citizenship, naturally.
Now Congress has the power to give citizenship to anyone, but that is done by legislation and not nature.
Obama has several laws involved in his citizenship, and has to have law to give him this citizenship, it was not given naturally.
The Founders did not create the meaning of Natural Born. They used the term already in existence and well known already to use as a qualification for the Office of President. And just for the President.
No person who was born a Natural Citizen needs even a single law to make him/her a citizen. The law can only recognize the natural born citizen, it cannot create one as only nature can do that. And is why its called "Natural Born Citizen". No law is involved in giving that person anything concerning his citizenship. He is born with citizenship, naturally.
Now Congress has the power to give citizenship to anyone, but that is done by legislation and not nature.
Obama has several laws involved in his citizenship, and has to have law to give him this citizenship, it was not given naturally.
Kootr?
Nothing you've said here responds even slightly to my point.
Obama's circumstance is the same as the four presidents above - with the possible debate about fathers versus mothers, though even then there are two of each type.
How do you think it is different?
You haven't said.
And the red clause above makes no sense. Which laws do you mean?
*****
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/leo-donofrio-comments-on-judah-benjamin-article-concerning-natural-born-citizen-and-the-common-law/ (broken link)
"The first of which is precedent. In our history as a nation, every President we have ever had was born in the United States to parents who were both US Citizens."
- Leo C. Donofrio
Just do a search for the word "precedent" and the first time it shows will be in that quote.
(The points about Buchanan, Arthur, Wilson, and Hoover are made by 2burmdad at 3:12pm on December 3rd, in comments on the linked Donofrio post. I look forward to his response, but suspect he will be so blind-sided by it that he may not make one.)
Last edited by jps-teacher; 12-03-2008 at 10:13 PM..
Thanks JPS-Teacher for carrying on the fight. Some of us have given up trying to convince others with facts about the birth certificate, natural born citizen, etc. business.
Thanks JPS-Teacher for carrying on the fight. Some of us have given up trying to convince others with facts about the birth certificate, natural born citizen, etc. business.
I know I have. I envy jps' tenacity and patience, even if I feel it's not going to get through to most of the people who are still living this dream, hoping that they can find a way to ouster Obama.
Thanks JPS-Teacher for carrying on the fight. Some of us have given up trying to convince others with facts about the birth certificate, natural born citizen, etc. business.
I've convinced Sanrene that I am, at a minimum, a straight shooter.
She may not be convinced (yet?) by the facts of the cases, but she knows at least that my position is based on what I see as evidence, rather than blind passion for Obama.
I know I have. I envy jps' tenacity and patience, even if I feel it's not going to get through to most of the people who are still living this dream, hoping that they can find a way to ouster Obama.
If I couldn't handle this, I'd be in deep trouble with the adolescents I work with!!
And, to be honest, I post these as much for whatever new folks wander in as for Kootr - I don't want to leave his as the dominant voice on the topic.
If I couldn't handle this, I'd be in deep trouble with the adolescents I work with!!
And, to be honest, I post these as much for whatever new folks wander in as for Kootr - I don't want to leave his as the dominant voice on the topic.
Actually, after I posted that and walked away for a bit, it crossed my mind that you are probably used to dealing with it for the exact reason you've given here.
I have been toying with the idea of going back to school and then getting my cert to teach, but I admit that I probably wouldn't do very well with the older kids.
Actually, after I posted that and walked away for a bit, it crossed my mind that you are probably used to dealing with it for the exact reason you've given here.
I have been toying with the idea of going back to school and then getting my cert to teach, but I admit that I probably wouldn't do very well with the older kids.
I taught middle school kids for over 20 years. The posts and logic espoused by some on this forum remind me of middle school kids! Thanks JPS-Teacher for teaching us all.
IIRC - if a person is born in the US or one of its territories that person is a citizen regardless of the nationality or citizenship of the parents. This is the basis of the anchor baby principal used by illegal, and some legal, immigrants to gain a legal foothold in the US.
AFAK President elect Obama has produced a copy of a Hawaiian birth certificate so all this debate is completely pointless.
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