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It is difficult. It is foolish to say that the residents of the Crimea would not be a part of Russia. The referendum showed the real situation. As residents of Abkhazia do not want to be a part of Georgia and Nagorno-Karabakh residents do not want to be part of Azerbaijan etc. And current situation in Ukraine is developing in such a way that Kharkov, Odessa (and all the Black Sea coast), Donetsk, Lugansk also may will want to become part of Russia. What do we do then?
You forgot to mention that Russia helped to ethnically cleanse Abkhazia and Karabakh first, then came turn of South Osetia. All conflicts were stirred up and suspended by the Russian Federation. Same is going on in the occupied Eastern Ukraine - the area that was thoroughly politically, linguistically and even ethnically cleansed by the Russian controlled forces. Crimea saw bloodless political/ethnic cleansing (not counting the kidnapped and vanished without a trace). The only difference, invasion and the sham referendum preceeded the cleansing. If Crimean ethnic Russian would have self-organized to set up an illegal referendum, it is one thing, if an invading force set up a "referendum" for them, it is something else. As for Kharkov etc., there are few people who want to join Putin' fortress Russia.
The question remain: what other countries are allowed to use paramilitary and regular troops to set up "referendums"? What other regions of the Russian Federation are allowed to set up referendums, any referendums? Can residents of the occupied Crimea have another referendum, perhaps with little help of let's say Turkish volunteers? Why not?
You forgot to mention that Russia helped to ethnically cleanse Abkhazia and Karabakh first, then came turn of South Osetia. All conflicts were stirred up and suspended by the Russian Federation.
The bloody war between the Abkhaz and the Georgians were in 1993-1994. Since then it has been smoldering conflict. As with other conflicts in the territories former Soviet Union.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Same is going on in the occupied Eastern Ukraine - the area that was thoroughly politically, linguistically and even ethnically cleansed by the Russian controlled forces. Crimea saw bloodless political/ethnic cleansing (not counting the kidnapped and vanished without a trace). The only difference, invasion and the sham referendum preceeded the cleansing. If Crimean ethnic Russian would have self-organized to set up an illegal referendum, it is one thing, if an invading force set up a "referendum" for them, it is something else. As for Kharkov etc., there are few people who want to join Putin' fortress Russia.
"Сleansed". I think the reason is not cleansed. The reason for is policy of the Ukrainian government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
The question remain: what other countries are allowed to use paramilitary and regular troops to set up "referendums"? What other regions of the Russian Federation are allowed to set up referendums, any referendums? Can residents of the occupied Crimea have another referendum, perhaps with little help of let's say Turkish volunteers? Why not?
This is an interesting question. Probably, such referendums are possible only if the percentage of support of about 90%. If less then it will turn into a military conflict.
I do not see these problems in modern Russia. You are confusing "cult of purity of the nation" with the military traditions. Russian country of many nationalities, and "cult of purity of the nation" will not work here. If Putin is betting on the Nazis, Russia is doomed to decay. Putin is a clever man, and he will not allow it. Russian nation is more of a cultural community than genetic. The popularity of Putin's power is based on the military traditions - a strong leader who is able to gather the country after fragmentation.
Russian decline, humiliation, victimhoom, you can find that theme in every post by comrade Erasure. A fearless, but somewhat thieving if not weird, leader who carries out his historical mission of saving Russia after it viciously humiliated by USA, a union of the nazis and fearless leader ruling over thieving traditional Russian elites.
Cult of purity. I am sorry comrade Frolov, it has nothing to do with ethnic purity, both Nazi Germany and Russia accepted thoroughly assimilated minorities (most of them, at least) who were/are extolling virtues of German/Russian cultural superiority, yet the notion of superiority of a Russian Russian over a Russified "black-arsed" Russian is alive and well in Russia. A to-the-bone Russified minority can and will be insulted using rich ethnic slur vocabulary applied to less/non assimilated minorities. A buryat asiatic looking tanker burned/killed in a Donbass war will be forever a "churka" (slur for a slow witted minority) for european Russians. Paxton meant "moral purity" i.e something decadent nation (e.g. rotting West) cannot have, only Russia has unique
Духовные скрепы (spiritual ties) as comrade Putin puts it to lead the Russian people in the future. The laws to supress homosexual propaganda, freedom of speech, etc. aim to keep those ties strong . Internal cleansing and external expansion, those are self-explanatory.
Russian decline, humiliation, victimhoom, you can find that theme in every post by comrade Erasure. A fearless, but somewhat thieving if not weird, leader who carries out his historical mission of saving Russia after it viciously humiliated by USA, a union of the nazis and fearless leader ruling over thieving traditional Russian elites.
Cult of purity. I am sorry comrade Frolov, it has nothing to do with ethnic purity, both Nazi Germany and Russia accepted thoroughly assimilated minorities (most of them, at least) who were/are extolling virtues of German/Russian cultural superiority, yet the notion of superiority of a Russian Russian over a Russified "black-arsed" Russian is alive and well in Russia. A to-the-bone Russified minority can and will be insulted using rich ethnic slur vocabulary applied to less/non assimilated minorities. A buryat asiatic looking tanker burned/killed in a Donbass war will be forever a "churka" (slur for a slow witted minority) for european Russians. Paxton meant "moral purity" i.e something decadent nation (e.g. rotting West) cannot have, only Russia has unique
Духовные скрепы (spiritual ties) as comrade Putin puts it to lead the Russian people in the future. The laws to supress homosexual propaganda, freedom of speech, etc. aim to keep those ties strong . Internal cleansing and external expansion, those are self-explanatory.
You don't know the cultural life of Russia, as well as who is "churka".
I wonder if counterpunch authors for hire cited Russian nazi and propaganda sources they've paraphrased in that propaganda piece? "Truth"dig clowns usually paraphrase Russian nazis/propaganda (sometimes word for word) without citing sources and funding. Also, "Truth"dig in all these years never ever published an article remotely critical of the feeding Russian hands, ever. Comrade, Ichoro, educate us about counterpunch cesspool, it feels dirty to browse two leftist propaganda rags. Tell us comrade Ichoro if counterpunch clowns provide proper references to newspaper Zavtra.ru they, without slightest doubt, paraphrase?
It's written by a former staffer for a US congressman. Whenever one reads newspapers, you should at least check the bios.
There was an earlier article by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on the CIA involvement with the Al Qaeda, ISIS, and other jihadist groups in Syria.
There are also a lot of good articles by former UK Guardian journalists (Glenn Greenwald, Nafeez Ahmed, Gareth Proter, etc.) who covered foreign policy at the paper before Prime Minister Cameron threatened to shut it down over the global surveillance leaks.
Most of the reporting in the US and Europe is typical propaganda that one sees when the government is engaged in a war. People have seen through this and sought out other sources of news to balance the information. Both the Washington Post and UK Telegraph ran articles asking readers to stop reading Russian news sites.
Духовные скрепы (spiritual ties) as comrade Putin puts it to lead the Russian people in the future. The laws to supress homosexual propaganda, freedom of speech, etc. aim to keep those ties strong . Internal cleansing and external expansion, those are self-explanatory.
We at least try to have something spiritual in our lives. What do you have westerners? economies driven by usury and unsustainable consumption and endless god complex?
And let's not forget about HOW immigrants are used in Western Europe, and HOW whites treat non-whites in good old USA - recent events in Maryland just tiny fraction of what's breeding in the country. Endless ghettos, thousands of homeless - hey, bombing others is much easier apparently than cleaning up your own country.
Fascism is this:
A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.[29]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism.
That's just a perfect description of the United States of Arsholes aka USA. Just look at any Trump's speech, it's all there.
How much of American industry/resources/land Obama and his trusted buddies have appropriated in the past 8 years?
A lot, just a tiny example:
Over the next year and a half, $12 billion to $14 billion was sent to Iraq in the airlift, and an additional $5 billion was sent by electronic transfer. Exactly what happened to that money after it arrived in Baghdad became one of the many unanswered questions from the chaotic days of the American occupation
A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.[29]
So many of these points make me think of America, my own country.
I really wonder how the people of the Ukraine are doing? Anybody got any links?
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