The future of Ukraine (crime, best, country, people)

[Wadym]

Originally Posted by travric

As for the use of Russian forces in Europe, we haven't seen NATO countries renouncing its protection towards foreign invaders. In fact there is concern. There is fear of invasion and I would suggest it is very realistic under the circumstances.

Events in Ukraine is obviously shown that the fear of a military invasion of Russia greatly exaggerated.

Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov

NATO invaded Iraq without the UN resolution - is it not a "changed the rules"? Why Vlad is a dark side, but not NATO?

NATO didn't invade Iraq. Ask your supervisor in the Kremlin once more.

[lchoro]

He probably means the US and some NATO countries, such as the UK. Trump is using it in his political stump speeches. Forces from US and Turkey also came in uninvited in Iraq in 2015, even after Iraq's defense minister told them to get out.

[Maksim_Frolov]

Originally Posted by Wadym

NATO didn't invade Iraq. Ask your supervisor in the Kremlin once more.

Yes, NATO handed out candy and ice cream in Iraq.

[travric]

I may be wrong but I do not think Putin complained about the NATO communique about its ramping up defense in Europe. Perhaps he understands the move was a given? Really curious how the Kremlin views the NATO move.

[gsgsgs]

I think Medvedev did complain at the security conference

http://www.voltairenet.org/article190255.html


so, why doesn't Russia join EU ?

why can't Russia give non-attacking security guarantees (including "volunteers") to neighbor countries ?

why can't lawyer Medvedev admit that Crimea intervention was against
international law and assure that such actions won't become standard
part of future Russian policy ?

-------------------------------------------------
the word "Crimea" does not appear in his speech.
He thinks the sanctions and "new cold war" just came out of nothing ?!

> We often differ in our assessments of the events that took place over the past two years.
> However, I want to emphasise that they don’t differ as much as they did 40 years ago
> when we signed the Final Helsinki Act

http://www.osce.org/mc/39501?download=true

1.) Questions relating to Security in Europe
(a) Declaration on Principles Guiding Relations between Participating States
...
II. Refraining from the threat or use of force

[albion]

Russians always conveniently forget their invasion of Afghanistan where they got their backside kicked. And why shouldn't former communist bloc countries apply to join NATO?

[travric]

Thanks on Medvedev's comments and 'complaints'.

I noticed recently that NATO maybe heard him and they now noted they wish to engage in more 'dialogue'. Let's see what happens with that. And as NATO alluded in their remarks defense is the priority.... probably to make sure others know where a line can't be crossed in the context of bringing
countries to mutual understandings.

Always good to see NATO working. Its existence has to be a prescient setup of politico-military organizational genius considering post-war sovereignity issues in European states. And plenty to think about if no NATO when contemplating on the existence of European states considering what we have seen on past maps when investigation is done.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by travric

Thanks on Medvedev's comments and 'complaints'.

I noticed recently that NATO maybe heard him and they now noted they wish to engage in more 'dialogue'. Let's see what happens with that. And as NATO alluded in their remarks defense is the priority.... probably to make sure others know where a line can't be crossed in the context of bringing
countries to mutual understandings.

Always good to see NATO working. Its existence has to be a prescient setup of politico-military organizational genius considering post-war sovereignity issues in European states. And plenty to think about if no NATO when contemplating on the existence of European states considering what we have seen on past maps when investigation is done.

Yeah, coz that brings us closer and closer to the WWIII)))

so, food for a thought here -



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KHCNk9BYy4

( the translation is not all that good, so I can pitch in if necessary)))

[travric]

^^^^^^^^^
Thanks for the vid. Didn't expect anything different. He's top bear. He could not do anything else. His arguments are exceptionally good in attempting to show the Russian state is under siege.

On the missiles NATO did ask to work cooperatively on them. Russia declined. And the missiles? Not aimed at large Russian strategic nuclear forces. In the big picture they are really intended to protect against threats from outside the European area. Even the Russian armed forces know that.

And Ukraine another bumbling block with admonishments like: no NATO for you, nor self-determination or respect for its borders. You know under those stipulations it will be impossible now to melt the 'frozen war'. It would appear that Mr. Putin believes he 'owns' Ukraine to make those claims. Of course he has no right but he'll speak and speak on it 'til the cows come home.

[Scrat335]

And the missiles? Not aimed at large Russian strategic nuclear forces. In the big picture they are really intended to protect against threats from outside the European area. Even the Russian armed forces know that.

This is insulting, not only to a Russian general to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of military affairs. Russians are many things but stupid is not one of them. I am not the sharpest tool in the shed myself but what you've said here just tells me you're trying to BS me.

I'm not buying it and Russia would be a nation of fools to even listen. That missile shield is about neutralizing threats to Europe. Even if Europe (NATO) is threatening other nations and they are doing just that now. A functional missile shield neutralizes Russias ability to hit back after itself is attacked and can be used to cover and shield large groups of military forces from nuclear attack.

It's a well known fact that ANY large spearhead crossing Russias border is most likely going to disappear in a nuclear fireball. The nation of Russia has a right to defend itself and I suspect it would. If you take that ability away you might not like the result.

There's too many reptile minds in the west.