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Russia does share, where you think those subsidies come from? Belarus would be the level of some impoverished African country if not for Russian subsidies, i.e., sharing the wealth. Same with Ukraine. They are already poor as it is. The only reason Lukashenko is still is in power is because of Russia, if not for Russia, he would have been ousted years ago, for better or worse. He needs to remember who his benefactor is.
It USED to share, understanding that it needs Belorussia on its side.
But with time, (and particularly after losing Ukraine because of its inept policies,) Putin decided to take Lukashenko by the throat so to speak, and to force him to submit under Kremlin by economic means; raising energy prices, placing sanctions on Belorussian products ( unofficially so.)
Lukashenko didn't take it lightly - so their spat was going on already before these elections.
At that, I am all for countries to do what they want, if Belarus wants to head towards the EU, that is their right to. However, Russia will respond, and should be expected to, the same way the US does when a country starts going a direction it does not desire.
Russia already responded in case with Ukraine.
How did it work out for Russia?
(Kremlin thinks that if it only offers Lukashnko sufficient bribe, Belorussia's independence will be sold, to which Lukashenko is saying "Coffin doesn't have pockets. Independence and sovereignty are not for sale."
At that, from the sound of it, he DOES like the idea of integration, however not just with Russia, on Kremlin's conditions, but into Eurasian union, with well-defined rules for everyone and well-defined price on energy.)
So don't you point at Lukashenko as a source of a problem - Kremlin Inc is the source of problem as usual, with its thuggish approach.
Yes, sure. Belarusians, like Ukrainians, want independence and do not want to join Kremlin Inc (that is Russia, because the Kremlin Inc is Russia at the present time in the international arena). This is a normal situation. But in such a situation, friendship is friendship, but tobacco apart.
Yes, sure. Belarusians, like Ukrainians, want independence and do not want to join Kremlin Inc (that is Russia, because the Kremlin Inc is Russia at the present time in the international arena). This is a normal situation. But in such a situation, friendship is friendship, but tobacco apart.
Did you pay attention that Lukashenko actually WANTS to join EURASIAN UNION, not just "Kremlin Inc"?
So what is wrong with this idea?
( Ukrainians are a whole different story. They are learning their lesson by now.)
Interesting conversation all around. It brings to light many issues in that region. I don't think anything is changing anytime soon because his hold is firm. Look at the level of violence the police are willing to engage in to keep him in power (this is different than much of the Maidan days, while police were brutal then too it was constrained for most of the movement). They don't care about Belarusians, they care about the boss. It is essentially a mafia ruling over a small country. Unless the people bring some force back, its over soon.
You know, I was in Belarus a couple of years ago. I saw with my own eyes how they live there, and I talked to Belarusians and they told me a lot of things. Lukashenko "milk" to belarusians as milking cows and squeezes out of them the last penny. And very many there are not happy with it. And he hold only due to the fact that the Russian market is open for goods from Belarus. If Russia suddenly restricts its markets for Belarus, it will not be very sweet.
Call me paranoid, but I don't want to post here certain videos of certain Ukrainian bloggers, knowing that Ukraine is a terrorist state and they might end up on that abominable "Mirotvoretz" site for whatever reason.
So I'll DM to you a link, where Ukrainian blogger interviews a Belorussian regarding business, and what Belorussians are not happy about exactly in this respect.
Listen to his detailed answer, and compare it to situation of business people in Russia.
You will get an idea.
Quote:
Although their products are really very good quality.
And why do you think it's a case VS Russian products full of palm oil?
Interesting conversation all around. It brings to light many issues in that region. I don't think anything is changing anytime soon because his hold is firm. Look at the level of violence the police are willing to engage in to keep him in power (this is different than much of the Maidan days, while police were brutal then too it was constrained for most of the movement). They don't care about Belarusians, they care about the boss. It is essentially a mafia ruling over a small country. Unless the people bring some force back, its over soon.
They ALL simply remember what happened in Ukraine few years ago and they don't want to take any chances.
Particularly now, when the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians are advising Belorussians on-line "don't do it. Don't get colonized. You will feel sorry."
So to prevent democracy, its okay for the state to chase down protesters, surround them and beat them with sticks until they pass out. Remind us why "overwhelming majority of Ukrainians" are supposedly in favor of police doing that. What I recall was Ukrainians fought back until they won. But it was a different situation in 2014... Then it was a large number of people supporting one side vs. another. Here its all the people against the government. No Lukashenko supporters to be seen and no opposition leaders exist.
I still don't understand why he bothered to allow an election. Now we will have more deaths, one guy in Gomel was beat so badly the police won't release the body. I'm also seeing more videos of random people jumping in to help people getting beat by police escape. This is getting out of hand quick when violence is beginning to be met with counter violence. And I'm seeing this in Brest, Grodno, Lida, Gomel etc etc. If it comes to armed conflict I will remember the protesters started unarmed and peaceful here, but Russian media will paint them as armed coup mongers or something because the new people in charge won't be supporting a Russian colony that is for sure.
So to prevent democracy, its okay for the state to chase down protesters, surround them and beat them with sticks until they pass out.
Here is the thing DKM - it has nothing to do with *Democracy.*
What you are trying to pass for "democracy" is actually a colonization.
Let me untangle this very tricky knot for you, and hopefully it will indicate the future flow of events.
See, in order to have a *Democracy* for real, those former CIS countries need to have WORKING multi-party system, which they were deprived of with the very help of the West, that is screaming today about the " absence of Democracy" over there.
And the reason they were deprived of that ( Russia first of all,) is because it's much easier for the West ( US first of all) to get access to the coveted natural resources through a group of thugs that are sufficiently bribed by the West, and have all the political power concentrated in their hands.
At this point, when things are working out for the West/US beautifully, they are not interested in any "democracy" in that part of the world whatsoever, because this simply doesn't serve the purpose.
But when that part of the world ends up in the hands of "dictators" that DON'T serve Western/US interests unquestionably and obediently, that's when we start hearing the howling about the "absence of Democracy" in those places.
And "establishment of Democracy" means just that - ask the West for help, and it will help to get rid of the hated dictator, and supposedly will establish a coveted "democracy" in the region in question.
In reality, looking at Ukraine, we already know that the country simply get colonized and it will be run with the help of the newly-appointed government and loans.
So.. see the dilemma?
The population of those countries have two choices; either its own dictator, or colonization.
But no *Democracy* in sight.
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