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That's because those districts were partially occupied by Russian forces. How do you expect a partial district to vote? There is map of these districts and 500k people is only the pre war population. If you want the Donbas to be represented in rada and increase the "Pro Russian" share of MP's the way to achieve this is to return these areas to Ukraine control.
That's because those districts were partially occupied by Russian forces. How do you expect a partial district to vote? There is map of these districts and 500k people is only the pre war population. If you want the Donbas to be represented in rada and increase the "Pro Russian" share of MP's the way to achieve this is to return these areas to Ukraine control.
Are you making this up as you go?
Because the reason that the Central Election Committee officially gave while depriving all these people of their right to vote, was totally different.
"In connection with the armed aggression of Russia against Ukraine, it's impossible to provide the adequate security of citizens and avoidance of the terrorist acts during the organizational process and elections in 10 districts."
THAT's the official reason why these people were deprived of their vote, which is a total BS.
And since it's a clear BS, the "return of the territories under Ukraine's control" will not mean that these people will be given a voice.
It means that the Nazi boys will finally get the green light to kill and plunder in Donbass, to shut down any dissent.
I have yet to see Syria returned to government control. And in this case, its ten times harder. Again, how many pilots want to die trying? We both know the answer is "not enough"
From what I've heard today, the Russians said that "they are not planning to fight the soldiers in the tranches," but that they will direct their hits "at the headquarters in Ukraine, where the decisions are made."
I was listening to Russian news today, and what happened was - after all the running around with CNN crew and what not, Zelensky started calling Putin, pretending that he is a "big boy" now, and has some demands.
Putin of course snubbed him, or as Russians were joking "changed the number." (I see his point - why should he talk to a puppet?)
After that I suppose Biden was forced to call him himself and to ask for a meeting.
Now how does he feel ( Biden that is) after calling Putin " a killer* a month earlier and threatening him with god knows what?
Stupid I suspect?
There is an opinion that Biden has simply forgotten about the incident ))
Because the reason that the Central Election Committee officially gave while depriving all these people of their right to vote, was totally different.
"In connection with the armed aggression of Russia against Ukraine, it's impossible to provide the adequate security of citizens and avoidance of the terrorist acts during the organizational process and elections in 10 districts."
No I'm using my brain instead of trying to fit Russian propaganda into reality. Anyone can take a map, look at the districts that had no representative elected, overlay it with the line of control, and see that each district is as I described, spanning the front line. This isn't an opinion.
The presence of a substantial pro Russian party in Ukraine's parliament pretty much destroys your claim that Ukraine doesn't allow them to be elected. Perhaps you've never looked hard enough at who represents which district. That should be mandatory before spouting uninformed opinions.
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Originally Posted by erasure
From what I've heard today, the Russians said that "they are not planning to fight the soldiers in the tranches," but that they will direct their hits "at the headquarters in Ukraine, where the decisions are made."
Uh huh, surrre they did.
I know enough Russians to know they are smarter than pursuing such scenarios.
No I'm using my brain instead of trying to fit Russian propaganda into reality. Anyone can take a map, look at the districts that had no representative elected, overlay it with the line of control, and see that each district is as I described, spanning the front line. This isn't an opinion.
The presence of a substantial pro Russian party in Ukraine's parliament pretty much destroys your claim that Ukraine doesn't allow them to be elected. Perhaps you've never looked hard enough at who represents which district. That should be mandatory before spouting uninformed opinions.
Enough of your nonsense already.
I repeat again - the official reason why the inhabitants of these areas ( close to the front lines) were not allowed to vote, were the "security issues" ( according to the Election Committee) - precisely as I wrote earlier, not what you are making up here, according to your own understanding.
Deutche Welle confirms this here, but you don't know how to read in Russian, do you?
Yet you continue to make stuff up - the way it fits your narrative.
And anything what does not fit your narrative, automatically becomes the "Russian propaganda."
Quote:
Uh huh, surrre they did.
I know enough Russians to know they are smarter than pursuing such scenarios.
I imagine that according to YOUR understanding yet again, "smartness" in this situation would be to accept what's dictated from Washington and let the Nazi boyz to do whatever they are pleased in Ukraine.
Security issues... like living on the front line? You're talking about the local elections in villages at the front lines ( I thought you were talking about the much more important national election). 500k people is where your error threw me off. 10 villages along the front lines is maybe 8k people or so. So they could not elect a new mayor while they are under military control due to fighting.... this is your gotcha that Ukraine won't allow a free election in the Donbas, even though they clearly allowed pro Russians to enter parliament from the Donbas? Seriously. You got to be kidding me. I want someone who can think to debate on this matter. I am defeated by boredom...
Security issues... like living on the front line? You're talking about the local elections in villages at the front lines ( I thought you were talking about the much more important national election). 500k people is where your error threw me off. 10 villages along the front lines is maybe 8k people or so. So they could not elect a new mayor while they are under military control due to fighting.... this is your gotcha that Ukraine won't allow a free election in the Donbas, even though they clearly allowed pro Russians to enter parliament from the Donbas? Seriously. You got to be kidding me. I want someone who can think to debate on this matter. I am defeated by boredom...
No, not "10 villages" on the front line - we are talking about the villages AND TOWNS/cities, that are as far from the front line as 30 km, such as ( but not limited to,)
and other places. So total about 500,000 people (10 districts in Donetsk region and 8 districts in Lugansk region) were deprived of the right to vote during the "more important national elections."
They were not allowed to vote under the made up pretext of "security issues."
The rest of Donbass was allowed to vote, since I assume that the authorities were hoping that the further away from the most Eastern part people are, the less likely they were to vote for pro-Russian parties.
But Zelensky was obviously wrong. Donbass was still voting for pro-Russian parties, even far away from the front lines.
Those 500,000 people closer to the front lines were not allowed to vote, since THEIR pro-Russian sentiment was a given for the authorities.
Here in this video they express their point of view regarding it, that what was done to them by the Ukrainian government was in fact illegal, and that they'd like to cast their vote, but they are regarded as "second sort" of people in their own country.
You obviously don't understand what's going on, while constantly listening to the Nazi propaganda.
And this would be half of a problem, but you keep on spreading it too.
P.S. And speaking of the "pro-Russian parties in the parliament" - they are physically attacked by the Nazi more and more often lately, in the same manner as Sharij's party is.
DKM just trolls on this subject. He should become a politician. All he has to offer is nonsense.
Anyway the proportion of the population which would support a Russian invasion in eastern Ukraine is very high. 80%? This would make a Russian invasion very easy on one hand but potentially very chaotic and costly in civilian lives.
That's a reason Russia is hesitant so far. Todays weapons are terribly destructive and when a Grad rocket leaves its launcher it does not discriminate between civilian or soldier.
DKM just trolls on this subject. He should become a politician. All he has to offer is nonsense.
He is confusing two things. What PLAYS in Putin's hands is not necessarily CAUSED by Russia. For example when bleating retards act as retards that they are and prohibit Russian language or destroy the monuments that are dear to the Easterners, which makes them more and more resistant to the government in Kiev, this is not caused by "Russia-Russia-Russia," of course, but it still plays in Putin's hands.
But I see something very similar in America's left, with all this "Russia-Russia-Russia" thing, when it's really internal long-festering American problems, even if they DO play in Putin's hands in the end.
But still, these are two different things; what's CAUSED by Russia, and what's not, but simply plays in Putin's hands.
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Anyway the proportion of the population which would support a Russian invasion in eastern Ukraine is very high. 80%? This would make a Russian invasion very easy on one hand but potentially very chaotic and costly in civilian lives.
That's a reason Russia is hesitant so far. Todays weapons are terribly destructive and when a Grad rocket leaves its launcher it does not discriminate between civilian or soldier.
The Ukronazis would cause huge problems too.
I was watching "60 minutes" yesterday, and the mood ( within the government including) is changing - no doubt.
There was a guy from Donbass in the studio, and he bluntly asked "OK, and if there will be NO military confrontation this time around with Ukrainian forces, if we'll go back to the so-called cease fire, how much longer do you want us to sit in the trenches, how many of our young guys need to be dead, before you ( the Russians here) will make up your mind, what you want to do with Donbass?
Are you still planing to shove us back into Ukraine according to the Minsk agreement, or are you going to adjoin us to Russia and to protect us?
We live in this suspension already seventh year in a row, it's time to make up your mind."
To which ( to my big surprise) usually liked by me Abzalov ( political observer) sternly said something like "We don't just sit here in Russia, we pay economic price with all the sanctions because we support you."
And that's when the opinions clearly divided in the studio, with part of Russians saying that it's not the money that matter, but the lives of people in Donbass.
And THIS hit the nerve right there, down to the core of the nineties "economic reforms" - what idea Russia is serving since then - the golden calf, or traditionally Russian spiritual ideas?
Donbass made it as obvious as ever that it was the former one, which as I've said many times before, is destructive for Russia as a nation in the long run.
BTW a lot of Ukrainians see it ( particularly those in the South-East,) and they DO understand what this is all about too. And THAT's something that turns them away from Russia ( or rather Putin's government.)
They out of all people should know, because they were betrayed already twice - first time by Putin and second time by Zelensky.
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