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What "people" are you talking about Scrat, that can't "keep themselves fed"?
I'm speaking about human society and environmental conditions that prevent certain things such as womens rights from being taken seriously and put into practice. I think I've made my self clear
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Because under the Sharia law women are not allowed to leave the house without the male "guardian."
And if she doesn't have the "male guardian" in the house, guess what's going to happen to her?
I guess you need to look more into what Islam is all about, before talking about the "women's rights" there. ( Since these two are the oxymoron to begin with.)
For example;
n 2002, a fire at a girls' school in Mecca killed fifteen young girls. Complaints were made that Saudi Arabia's "religious police", specifically the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice, had prevented schoolgirls from leaving the burning building, and hindered rescue workers because the students were not wearing modest clothing and, possibly, because they lacked a male escort.[80]
In August 2005, a court in the northern part of Saudi Arabia ordered the divorce of a 34-year-old mother of two (named Fatima Mansour) from her husband, Mansur, even though they were happily married and her father (now deceased) had approved the marriage. The divorce was initiated by her half-brother using his powers as her male guardian, who alleged that his half-sister's husband was from a tribe of a low status compared to the status of her tribe and that the husband had failed to disclose this when he first asked for Fatima's hand. If sent back to her brother's home, Fatima feared domestic violence.[81][82] She spent four years in jail with her daughter before the Supreme Judicial Council overturned the decision.[83]
In July 2013, King Fahd hospital in Al Bahah postponed amputating a critically injured woman's hand because she had no male legal guardian to authorize the procedure. Her husband had died in the same car crash that left her and her daughter critically injured.[74]
In 2017, Manal al-Sharif reported meeting a woman in prison who had finished serving her criminal sentence, but because her male guardian refused to sign her release papers, was being held indefinitely.
And that's Saudi Arabia, that was "stable" and wealthy enough for quite some time.
I will not give a lot of credit to stuff like this. First off I don't trust the axe grinders that write such things and even IF true what in the hell is anyone to do about it? The answer is to encourage change, don't kill millions of people.
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Then my next question probably will be ( keeping in mind what you just said here,);
having two daughters, would you be interested in marrying them at puberty age to some forty-year old wealthy men, who can "provide equally for up to four wives"?
( Because that's what the Islamic laws approve.)
All of course in order to "prevent misanthropy and misogyny," and god forbids "misogamy" on top of that.
Yes/ no?
If no, then why?
In the society we grew up in the answer is no (although the thought crossed my mind on one or more occasion) but in another time and/or place it may have been the thing to do.
The reality I live is not the reality of others. When I look at Islam I see a religion that never had an enlightenment. I see a religion created by people who live in a harsh world in which they live harsh lives.
Lead by example, not with lies or a stick.
No one in the west (and I mean no one) can cast that first stone considering what we as a people (and as people) have done to others.
On what Ichoro is pointing out about terrorism you should heed. This isn't over yet and there are people out there with a righteous mind focused on vengeance. Their feelings are not unjustified either.
I'm speaking about human society and environmental conditions that prevent certain things such as womens rights from being taken seriously and put into practice. I think I've made my self clear
In this case I was probably the one that didn't make myself clear.
So when you are talking about people "keeping themselves fed," what I pointed at, is that if you are a woman in that part of the world, you can't leave the house to feed yourself, if you don't have a "male guardian." And if you don't have a male guardian for whatever reason, you can't get yourself food - it's that simple. So the "women's rights" ( or rather the absence of them) are of a different nature over there, comparably to what you think of them here in the West.
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I will not give a lot of credit to stuff like this.
Because you don't understand the essence of Islam apparently.
As a totally different philosophy/different way of life comparably to what you are used to.
But Russians, who lived in a close proximity to those cultures, figured it all out pretty fast, and one of the first things they did, was to make sure that those women were out of the house and in a workforce as a must thing, with no "male guardians" an no "burkas" allowed.
And that's how they successfully nipped Islam in the bud during Soviet times. With Russians/Soviets being gone from the "Stans," Islam is encroaching back in the impoverished Central Asia, with radical Islamists in Afghanistan eyeing their chance to expand there and further, back to Caucasus.
So while you ( and Ichoro) consider Taliban as providers of "stability," Russian government wants none of this kind of "stability," because THEY know what it's all about, and what someone like "Taliban bros" potentially bring to the Russian backyard.
So essentially, what starts with the suffering of women in that part of the world, ends up all the way with the Twin Towers in New York ( or do you think it's a "conspiracy" too?)
Because the path of each and every Arab participating in that terrorist attack 20 years ago, crossed Afghanistan first.
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First off I don't trust the axe grinders that write such things and even IF true what in the hell is anyone to do about it? The answer is to encourage change, don't kill millions of people.
At this point, I am only explaining what kind of "stability" Taliban leads to.
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In the society we grew up in the answer is no (although the thought crossed my mind on one or more occasion) but in another time and/or place it may have been the thing to do.
The reality I live is not the reality of others. When I look at Islam I see a religion that never had an enlightenment. I see a religion created by people who live in a harsh world in which they live harsh lives.
Lead by example, not with lies or a stick.
No one in the west (and I mean no one) can cast that first stone considering what we as a people (and as people) have done to others.
On what Ichoro is pointing out about terrorism you should heed. This isn't over yet and there are people out there with a righteous mind focused on vengeance. Their feelings are not unjustified either.
So who do you think is going to make the ultimate judgement at the end, about who is right and who is wrong?
Because for example the way the world is seeing through the eyes of some Eastern European - the Russians are the ultimate oppressors, the source of all evil in the world along with their Soviet system.
But if you look through the eyes of some Tadjik woman, the Russians are the liberators, that provided her with the way out of Islamic oppression and guaranteed her job and security.
And then, of course, there are different outlooks on things across the world in general, depending on one's country/social ladder.
So who is the ultimate judge do you think?
Through whom/what the world is going to be ultimately judged?
In this case I was probably the one that didn't make myself clear.
So when you are talking about people "keeping themselves fed," what I pointed at, is that if you are a woman in that part of the world, you can't leave the house to feed yourself, if you don't have a "male guardian." And if you don't have a male guardian for whatever reason, you can't get yourself food - it's that simple. So the "women's rights" ( or rather the absence of them) are of a different nature over there, comparably to what you think of them here in the West.
I will not consider propaganda. In reality things are harsh for women all over this world in one way or another and I don't think it will change for a long time to come, if at all.
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Because you don't understand the essence of Islam apparently.
As a totally different philosophy/different way of life comparably to what you are used to.
I think you are right here. I am not a religious person and see things from a different point of view than you do. My mind is more mechanical and sees the world as more of a process where you work from a thought process colored by emotion and spiritualism. Our educations were different, our upbringing was different.
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But Russians, who lived in a close proximity to those cultures, figured it all out pretty fast, and one of the first things they did, was to make sure that those women were out of the house and in a workforce as a must thing, with no "male guardians" an no "burkas" allowed.
And that's how they successfully nipped Islam in the bud during Soviet times. With Russians/Soviets being gone from the "Stans," Islam is encroaching back in the impoverished Central Asia, with radical Islamists in Afghanistan eyeing their chance to expand there and further, back to Caucasus.
Agreed. But not the last part. I don't think the Taliban are the problem, it's the opposition. The Taliban are not a boogie man to me. They're Afghanistans lesser of 2 evils.
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So essentially, what starts with the suffering of women in that part of the world, ends up all the way with the Twin Towers in New York ( or do you think it's a "conspiracy" too?)
Because the path of each and every Arab participating in that terrorist attack 20 years ago, crossed Afghanistan first.
At this point, I am only explaining what kind of "stability" Taliban leads to.
No. 9/11 was a message and it was retribution. Retribution for many wrongs. The message was that you are not invulnerable and we can strike back.
I don't think 9/11 was anything other than an attack by a terrorist organization from the ME. I understand why it happened and have from the very morning I saw it unfold. Considering the millions of people America has killed in the previous decades I can also say do not believe it should have been unexpected. With the precedents set I fully expect it to happen again.
The conspiracy theories I have heard are mostly nonsense. I would not be surprised though if certain Americans knew something was up but failed to act.
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So who do you think is going to make the ultimate judgement at the end, about who is right and who is wrong?
Because for example the way the world is seeing through the eyes of some Eastern European - the Russians are the ultimate oppressors, the source of all evil in the world along with their Soviet system.
But if you look through the eyes of some Tadjik woman, the Russians are the liberators, that provided her with the way out of Islamic oppression and guaranteed her job and security.
And then, of course, there are different outlooks on things across the world in general, depending on one's country/social ladder.
So who is the ultimate judge do you think?
Through whom/what the world is going to be ultimately judged?
I don't think any judgement would matter coming from humanity. I live in a world where when the rubber meets the road there is no right or wrong, one side simply proclaims their righteousness and the other to be in error, rinse and repeat.
The ultimate judge though will be mother nature herself. She doesn't need us to carry the mission of life forward and we sure as hell are not very bright as a species.
There is some nutty stuff going on.
The price of natural gas hit the record price of $ 800 per cubic meter. ( You'd think that after the completion of the NS 2 it would go down, but heck no.
Ukrainians are blaming everything on Putin as usual ( who else,) although this is not Putin-regulated price, but the current price on European market.
Then Putin goes ( personally) to watch the joint military drills with Belorussia. ( After an attempt orchestrated by the usual suspects to stage yet another "color revolution" in Minsk, who would have thought that Lukashenko would turn to Putin for support? What an odd idea, right?
Now the Ukrainians and Co are getting hysterical because of that "Zapad 21" maneuvers, screaming that THIS TIME around Russia is definitely going to attack them. And Poland. And Baltic countries. ( All three of them I assume.)
So they conducted some military drills in Riga, without even warning its inhabitants.
That poor kid at 0:39.
If I were his mom, I'd probably get in that soldier's face.
But she is only pleading "I asked you not to shoot."
I wish Russians would have hit Ukraine already for real.
After the bleating idiots blew up the oil depot in DNR specifically on 9/11, (make no mistake about this date,) this "ISIS from Zhmerinka" needs to be dealt with already.
Erasure. Is the Taliban any worse than America? Are Muslims really any worse than Christians or Catholics?
Let me start from the last question.
Now Catholics are Christians ( as the Protestants of different denominations.)
( Interestingly enough my son didn't make a connection between the first two as well, being educated in US University, but he is in science/technology too, so... ) so I guess we were the only ones in Soviet schools having religion study as part of the world history curriculum. Because without it, one really can't understand history - history of Europe in particular.
So to answer your question, whether Muslims are really any worse that Christians, as much as I'd like to answer "yes," I'd like to stay as objective as possible, so my answer then is "yes and no."
Their religion that shape their outlook on life is much worse - that's for sure.
It sets the idea of the relations between men and women at the lowest denominator to begin with.
If in European cultures women ( in spite of their often "evil nature") are regarded as the source of inspiration for men ( that's where a lot of classical art is coming from - the music, the poetry and so on,) in Islam woman is something of commodity to be "given away," "to be taken care of," "to bear children," and so on.
Therefore Islam does not produce great poetry or painting/sculpting - none of that, because depicting human images is simply forbidden there, only some fancy ligature.
And music? You probably heard it, so enough said.
But what about Omar Khayyam some might ask, "didn't HE come from Islamic part of the world?"
Yes he did, but he came from the part of the world that didn't have anything to do with Islam, until it was CONQUERED and subjugated by Islam.
And those are the places where Islam is at its worse, particularly for women. Those are all the original lands of the "greater Persia," and Afghanistan by the way used to be part of it.
So here we come to another interesting point of the "cultural muslims" - i.e. people that were born in that part of the world, but not "zealot Islamists" in their hearts at all, as their ancestors were never part of Islamic scene. And the current opposition in Pandsher, ( Massoud Junior, Amrullah Saleh etc,) come across as precisely this kind of people.
Having dealt with this type in my life, I'd probably say that no, they are not worse than Christians, even though their culture might dictate otherwise.
P.S. And to answer your question "Is Taliban any worse than America?" -
Let me leave something here as an answer.
"I Am a Moslem Woman
It is not a democracy when a man can talk about politics without anyone threatening him. Democracy is when a woman can talk of her lover without anyone killing her. Dr. Sauad M. Al-Sabah
"I am a Moslem woman. I have no face. I have no identity.
At age 9, based on lunar year (a lunar year is twelve months of 28 days each or 336 days) or, when I am actually 8 years and 8 months old, I am considered an adult. Being an adult means that I have to adhere with Islamic laws as stated below.
I have to pray five times a day, fast one month out of the year and cover myself from head to toe in yards of black fabric. I am eligible to be married and can be punished for any wrong doing. I can be incarcerated and, if needed, executed for my crimes, even political ones.
Islam's law - that Allah sent down to his messenger Muhammad - came to announce that women (exactly like men) are full human beings. Women (like men) are therefore required to follow the way appointed by Allah.
"A woman (like a man) is therefore obligated with all three degrees of this religion: Islam (outward submission to Allah), iman (inward faith in Allah), and ihsan (perfection of worship of Allah)".
"Women have such honorable rights as obligations, but men have a (single) degree above them". The Koran 2:228
"Men are the managers of the affairs of women because Allah has preferred men over women and women were expended of their Rights". The Koran 4:34
Islam believes and promotes only one relationship between male and female and that is the relation of lust.
"If a man and a woman are alone in one place, the third person present is the devil". Prophet Mohammed"
^
This is in the direct reference to the post I wrote before, regarding the "lowest denominator."
P.S. And to answer your question "Is Taliban any worse than America?" -
Let me leave something here as an answer.
"I Am a Moslem Woman
It is not a democracy when a man can talk about politics without anyone threatening him. Democracy is when a woman can talk of her lover without anyone killing her. Dr. Sauad M. Al-Sabah
"I am a Moslem woman. I have no face. I have no identity.
At age 9, based on lunar year (a lunar year is twelve months of 28 days each or 336 days) or, when I am actually 8 years and 8 months old, I am considered an adult. Being an adult means that I have to adhere with Islamic laws as stated below.
I have to pray five times a day, fast one month out of the year and cover myself from head to toe in yards of black fabric. I am eligible to be married and can be punished for any wrong doing. I can be incarcerated and, if needed, executed for my crimes, even political ones.
Islam's law - that Allah sent down to his messenger Muhammad - came to announce that women (exactly like men) are full human beings. Women (like men) are therefore required to follow the way appointed by Allah.
"A woman (like a man) is therefore obligated with all three degrees of this religion: Islam (outward submission to Allah), iman (inward faith in Allah), and ihsan (perfection of worship of Allah)".
"Women have such honorable rights as obligations, but men have a (single) degree above them". The Koran 2:228
"Men are the managers of the affairs of women because Allah has preferred men over women and women were expended of their Rights". The Koran 4:34
Islam believes and promotes only one relationship between male and female and that is the relation of lust.
"If a man and a woman are alone in one place, the third person present is the devil". Prophet Mohammed"
^
This is in the direct reference to the post I wrote before, regarding the "lowest denominator."
Of course what you read above came from the post-revolutionary Islamic Iran.
But Taliban is coming from the same mold, since it's the same part of the world.
I hope this answers your question whether Taliban is "any worse than America."
Considering the state of relations between the sexes in the west and the resulting deprivations, chaos and strife in childrens lives I can't see the ways of Islam as being any worse, it's just focused differently. I also don't believe all Muslims practice the extreme forms you are holding up for exhibition.
I am not convinced Islam is worse in any way, it's just a different game with the pieces in different places.
Now Catholics are Christians ( as the Protestants of different denominations.)
( Interestingly enough my son didn't make a connection between the first two as well, being educated in US University, but he is in science/technology too, so... ) so I guess we were the only ones in Soviet schools having religion study as part of the world history curriculum. Because without it, one really can't understand history - history of Europe in particular.
So to answer your question, whether Muslims are really any worse that Christians, as much as I'd like to answer "yes," I'd like to stay as objective as possible, so my answer then is "yes and no."
Their religion that shape their outlook on life is much worse - that's for sure.
It sets the idea of the relations between men and women at the lowest denominator to begin with.
If in European cultures women ( in spite of their often "evil nature") are regarded as the source of inspiration for men ( that's where a lot of classical art is coming from - the music, the poetry and so on,) in Islam woman is something of commodity to be "given away," "to be taken care of," "to bear children," and so on.
Therefore Islam does not produce great poetry or painting/sculpting - none of that, because depicting human images is simply forbidden there, only some fancy ligature.
And music? You probably heard it, so enough said.
But what about Omar Khayyam some might ask, "didn't HE come from Islamic part of the world?"
Yes he did, but he came from the part of the world that didn't have anything to do with Islam, until it was CONQUERED and subjugated by Islam.
And those are the places where Islam is at its worse, particularly for women. Those are all the original lands of the "greater Persia," and Afghanistan by the way used to be part of it.
So here we come to another interesting point of the "cultural muslims" - i.e. people that were born in that part of the world, but not "zealot Islamists" in their hearts at all, as their ancestors were never part of Islamic scene. And the current opposition in Pandsher, ( Massoud Junior, Amrullah Saleh etc,) come across as precisely this kind of people.
Having dealt with this type in my life, I'd probably say that no, they are not worse than Christians, even though their culture might dictate otherwise.
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Their religion that shape their outlook on life is much worse - that's for sure.
It's not religions that shape people (s) it's environments. In Russian character there is a strong tendency for the herd mentality. I think this comes from not just communist principles but a need to work together and depend on one another to survive. Russians have always had a reputation as strong fighters and for a people who seems to be on everyones sights it's justified. I see the same character traits in a lot of Chinese and other Asian peoples.
Religions are tools. Doctrines and procedures are tools. It's these tools that are formed by a requirement imposed on peoples by the world around them. Sometimes for good and sometimes for bad but always out of necessity in some form for some reason.
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( Since these two are the oxymoron to begin with.)
) but in another time and/or place it may have been the thing to do. 
) so I guess we were the only ones in Soviet schools having religion study as part of the world history curriculum. Because without it, one really can't understand history - history of Europe in particular. 
