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Well both my parents immigrated from Ukraine/Russia including my brother and all my family members, I grew learning Russian first and grew up in a neighborhood full of Russians and to this day my mom speaks limited English so I use Russian on a daily basis. Yes my lived experiences are not the same as in Russia, so I’m not “Russian” in that sense, but my experiences are different from typical Americans as well. Growing up I never felt fully “American” and had a strong “Russian” identity. I also felt like I had more in common with other immigrant groups such as Mexicans and Asians than I did with white Americans, even if technically I am one. Over the years I’ve grown to identify with my American identity, but my “Russian” upbringing will always play a big part of who I am.
This is very typical of kids in Russ/Uke immigre families. Thanks for explaining it.
Just because some people were born outside of Russia, doesn't mean they're not Russian (or Ukrainian, or whatever). Ethnically, they're still Russian, even though "geographically" and by birth they may legally have some other nationality. Heritage, culture and language play a key role in defining who they are.
This is very typical of kids in Russ/Uke immigre families. Thanks for explaining it.
Just because some people were born outside of Russia, doesn't mean they're not Russian (or Ukrainian, or whatever). Ethnically, they're still Russian, even though "geographically" and by birth they may legally have some other nationality. Heritage, culture and language play a key role in defining who they are.
If you are born outside of Russia you are NOT Russian, if you grew up outside Russia you are NOT Russian! Just like Americans that call themselves Italian American, Irish American or African American but are none of those! This is something peculiar to America. Americans that call themselves Italian are MILES wide of the mark, even if they do eat pizza! If anything Americans that call themselves Irish are even worse! Their ideas of Irish culture are straight out of the book of the world's worst stereotypes!
If you are born outside of Russia you are NOT Russian, if you grew up outside Russia you are NOT Russian! Just like Americans that call themselves Italian American, Irish American or African American but are none of those! This is something peculiar to America. Americans that call themselves Italian are MILES wide of the mark, even if they do eat pizza! If anything Americans that call themselves Irish are even worse! Their ideas of Irish culture are straight out of the book of the world's worst stereotypes!
I eat borshch, therefore I am.
It's not about what the passport says. If someone grew up attending Russian Orthodox Church service, perhaps attending the church's language and history classes on weekends, eating Russian food at home and speaking Russian at home, that's Russian enough for me! Russian-American in many instances means culturally, linguistically, genetically Russian, legally an American citizen.
In any case, whether you believe it or not, there are Russian immigrants, legal residents of the US, posting on these threads, aside from the discussion about American-born "Russians".
If you are born outside of Russia you are NOT Russian, if you grew up outside Russia you are NOT Russian! Just like Americans that call themselves Italian American, Irish American or African American but are none of those! This is something peculiar to America. Americans that call themselves Italian are MILES wide of the mark, even if they do eat pizza! If anything Americans that call themselves Irish are even worse! Their ideas of Irish culture are straight out of the book of the world's worst stereotypes!
And what about Russians born in other post soviet countries, such as in Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Kazakhstan etc.? Did they all magically stop being Russian the moment the USSR fall apart? If that was the case why are a lot of these countries now trying to make living as a Russian as difficult as possible so that they either move to Russia or drop their Russian identity? If only Russians live in Russia then these countries have nothing to worry about right? Clearly not!
That brought to mind our Ukrainian-Canadian friend, a Russian speaker born in Odesa.
Although I did not know personally this other Ukrainian lady who used to live in a Vancouver suburb. She went on a holiday and met a Russian man, there was an instant connection between the two and they got married. Their tragic and untimely death was reported in our local news.
And what about Russians born in other post soviet countries, such as in Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Kazakhstan etc.? Did they all magically stop being Russian the moment the USSR fall apart? If that was the case why are a lot of these countries now trying to make living as a Russian as difficult as possible so that they either move to Russia or drop their Russian identity? If only Russians live in Russia then these countries have nothing to worry about right? Clearly not!
There is a difference between the USSR and Russia. I've worked with a lot of Eastern Europeans and am good friends with a Lithuanian, she most certainly does NOT consider herself Russian. That is a bit like calling the Welsh English and I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone to do that! :-D
There is a difference between the USSR and Russia.
You do realize there’s a difference between Nationality and ethnicity right? It should be pretty easy for Brits to understand considering their nationality isn’t tied to an ethnicity. There is the nationality (British) and then the ethnicity (English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish etc.).
Just to be clear, I do agree with you that after a couple generations those cultural connections are lost and so there isn’t much point in building a whole identity around it (although depending on how close knit the immigrant community is, it often times will just evolve into something else rather than just completely dissolving). So the reason why Americans hold onto their ethnic identities is because “American” isn’t an ethnicity, it’s just a nationality.
And since this is the Russia thread, FYI Russia has many other ethnicities not just Russians, there are the native ethnicities such as the Tatars, Chechens, Yakuts etc. and there are many others that immigrated to Russia and have lived there for multiple generations such as Germans, Georgians, Armenians, Jews etc.
Or do you think all these people are just “Russian” and that there are no cultural differences between them?
If that were the case then Brexit wouldn’t be a thing since the Brits wouldn’t be afraid of their heritage getting washed out by immigrants.
There is a difference between the USSR and Russia. I've worked with a lot of Eastern Europeans and am good friends with a Lithuanian, she most certainly does NOT consider herself Russian. That is a bit like calling the Welsh English and I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone to do that! :-D
Who said anything about referring to non-Russian nationalities or people from former ethnic republics in Russia as Russians? That's not at all what we were discussing, or trying to clarify with you.
If you are born outside of Russia you are NOT Russian, if you grew up outside Russia you are NOT Russian! Just like Americans that call themselves Italian American, Irish American or African American but are none of those! This is something peculiar to America. Americans that call themselves Italian are MILES wide of the mark, even if they do eat pizza! If anything Americans that call themselves Irish are even worse! Their ideas of Irish culture are straight out of the book of the world's worst stereotypes!
I do hope that what I'm about to type doesn't in the least come off as condescending or insulting , since that sincerely isn't at all my intent , but I must say that you have a rather strange conception of nationality/ethnicity for a European ( especially in comparison to many Continental Europeans ) .
To get to my point , the maxim of " One's nationality/ethnicity equals the nationality/ethnicity of the majority group of whatever country they are born in regardless of actual descent " isn't in the least applicable in f.ex East Central Europe , due to the convoluted geopolitical history of the region .
Using a very good example , a person of fully Hungarian descent from the Székely Land region of Transylvania who ( not infrequently ) speaks very broken Romanian will not only not consider themselves to be Romanian but also won't be seen as Romanian by actual ethnic Romanians , in spite of the fact that said person is a natural born Romanian citizen .
This state of affairs is ( I imagine ) very relevant in the case of ethnic Russians who in spite of having been born and raised outside of Russia in various FSU countries , still consider themselves to be very much Russian , an opinion that their non Russian fellow citizens often ( if not always ) tend to share .
After all I highly doubt that you would find many Estonians for instance , who would insist that the resident ethnically Russian population of Estonia is just as Estonian as they are , simply because they happened to be born/raised in Estonia and are oftentimes Estonian citizens to boot .
To be honest the emphasis on a person belonging to a particular nationality/ethnicity as the result of simply being born and raised in a particular country , strikes me as very much characteristic of highly demographically diverse New World countries and thus much more " American " than European in character overall .
Of course the third/fourth/beyond generation European immigrant descended people living in the United States you've mentioned are an entirely different kettle of fish , but their situation isn't at all applicable to the Old Continent where nationality oftentimes equates to ethnicity as I'm sure you know .
Last edited by William Blakeley; 09-04-2022 at 11:27 PM..
And what about Russians born in other post soviet countries, such as in Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Kazakhstan etc.? Did they all magically stop being Russian the moment the USSR fall apart? If that was the case why are a lot of these countries now trying to make living as a Russian as difficult as possible so that they either move to Russia or drop their Russian identity? If only Russians live in Russia then these countries have nothing to worry about right? Clearly not!
If they're born in Estonia or Belarus then they are NOT Russian! I was born in Britain but that doesn't make me Scottish! And my father was a Scot!
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