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Old 09-06-2022, 09:52 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,063 posts, read 106,870,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistoftime View Post
Does most Russian citizens know president Biden was instrumental in causing the Ukraine war by breaking the agreement we had with Russia concerning Nato and its planned advancement into the bufffer zone that most previous presidents supported until Biden?
3 Presidents before Biden told Putin (when asked), that they support NATO membership for Ukraine. Biden supported it in theory for Ukraine early in his career, but later changed his mind. He understood how problematic the issue was. He arrived in the White House being against NATO membership for Ukraine. Putin never asked him his opinion, though, probably because he'd already decided on his course of action.
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Old 09-06-2022, 10:01 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,063 posts, read 106,870,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
"Walks like a duck and quacks like a duck" - So you are English because you speak English and not Apache?

Open and shut case?
Nearly all Russians moved to Estonia only 1-2 generations ago. (Estonia was independent between the World Wars. The Russian influx was mainly Stalin's handiwork. He also deported a lot of Estonians to Central Asia after the war, as he moved masses of Russians into the Baltics.) They're new-comers. They never assimilated to the local culture or language, nor were they interested in doing so, with the exception perhaps of children of mixed Estonian-Russian marriages. They've maintained their Russian-ness the entire time.

When offered the opportunity for citizenship after 1991, they turned it down en masse, because they didn't want to fulfill the requirement to learn Estonian. Because, you know, they weren't Estonians, they were Russians.

Maybe you should ask them who they are, if you don't believe us.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 09-06-2022 at 10:11 AM..
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Old 09-06-2022, 10:06 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,063 posts, read 106,870,458 times
Reputation: 115814
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
"Walks like a duck and quacks like a duck" - So you are English because you speak English and not Apache?

Open and shut case?
Actually, I speak Navajo. Does that make me Navajo? Even if I lived on the Navajo Nation, would it make me Navajo? I think the Navajos would have an opinion on that, no matter what I thought.
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Old 09-06-2022, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Habsburg Lands of Old
906 posts, read 429,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
The anser is 'religion'. As for your remark concerning 'Indians' you seem to be agreeing with me are you not? It seems hard for some 'Johnny Foreigners' (sometimes even some Britons) to grasp but the FACT is that Northern Ireland is part of the UK but NOT Britain. However if you are Scottish you ARE British but you are NOT English! My forefathers come from all over Europe (like nearly everybody in England) but this does not make me French, Italian, Danish, Norwegian, Scottish or Welsh. Italian Americans are NOT Italian, Irish Americans are NOT Irish & African Americans are NOT African. The belief otherwise is something quite unique to the USA. My Mrs is black but you will never hear her refer to herself as 'African' in any way shape or form.

This reminds me of something I once read on Trip Adviser where a black woman from the US (somewhat bizarrely) voiced her concerns over being a black woman on an upcoming London trip, another lady from the US tried to reassure her by pointing out that 'she had similar concerns' before a trip she had previously made but her concerns were unfounded because, as she put it "there are millions of English African Americans already living in London!"

Did make me chuckle at the time.

As mentioned previously the United States , along with all other New World colonial countries , is an entirely different kettle of fish in this regard since the vast majority of people living there who are of European immigrant descent no longer speak their ancestral languages and are no longer in touch with their heritage/culture in general .

It is the complete reverse in large swathes of Continental Europe , what with members of ethnic minorities from Estonia to Serbia typically not only oftentimes speaking their ancestral languages/being very much in touch with their heritage/culture , but also ( not infrequently ) being totally outside the mainstream culture of whatever country they were born/raised in .

Believe it or not , but the presence of even millennial generation people who function as if they were literally foreign born/raised when venturing outside of their particular ethnic enclaves , is oftentimes very visible in this part of the world if you spend enough time here to notice it .

That's not to even mention the fact that the members of these aforementioned ethnic minorities aren't even necessarily immigrants , that is they didn't cross borders but the borders crossed them so to speak , as exemplified by the fact that ( keeping with the general Russian theme of this thread ) many Russians living in contemporary Ukraine have family roots in the country that predate the Soviet era by centuries .

In short the very real phenomenon of there being significant populations of Europeans who live in a country where they don't belong to the ethnic majority said country is named after/overall reflected by , cannot be compared to the so called " Plastic Paddy " phenomenon in the USA where people who are several generations removed from Europe/couldn't even string together two sentences in their ancestral tongue claim to be Italian or what have you .
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Old 09-06-2022, 10:27 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,808 posts, read 11,879,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Actually, I speak Navajo. Does that make me Navajo? Even if I lived on the Navajo Nation, would it make me Navajo? I think the Navajos would have an opinion on that, no matter what I thought.
So you agree then, speaking English doesn't make you English just like speaking Russian doesn't make you Russian?
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Old 09-06-2022, 10:30 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,808 posts, read 11,879,198 times
Reputation: 9786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Nearly all Russians moved to Estonia only 1-2 generations ago. (Estonia was independent between the World Wars. The Russian influx was mainly Stalin's handiwork. He also deported a lot of Estonians to Central Asia after the war, as he moved masses of Russians into the Baltics.) They're new-comers. They never assimilated to the local culture or language, nor were they interested in doing so, with the exception perhaps of children of mixed Estonian-Russian marriages. They've maintained their Russian-ness the entire time.

When offered the opportunity for citizenship after 1991, they turned it down en masse, because they didn't want to fulfill the requirement to learn Estonian. Because, you know, they weren't Estonians, they were Russians.

Maybe you should ask them who they are, if you don't believe us.
My ancestors moved to England 1-2 generations ago, my mrs family moved to England 1-2 generations ago, however we are as English as everybody else who were also born in England.
Like I said, just because your grandad or your mum is French doesn't make you French if you're born and raised elsewhere.
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Old 09-06-2022, 10:54 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,063 posts, read 106,870,458 times
Reputation: 115814
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
So you agree then, speaking English doesn't make you English just like speaking Russian doesn't make you Russian?
You're overlooking the factor pointed out near the beginning of this digression: cultural and linguistic heritage. Speaking Russian makes me Russian if my heritage and genetic makeup are Russian. Same as with Russians in Estonia (many of which eventually opted out of Estonia, and into Russia. Same as in Ukraine; some Russians moved out rather than send their kids to Uke-speaking schools.)
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Old 09-06-2022, 11:01 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,063 posts, read 106,870,458 times
Reputation: 115814
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
My ancestors moved to England 1-2 generations ago, my mrs family moved to England 1-2 generations ago, however we are as English as everybody else who were also born in England.
Like I said, just because your grandad or your mum is French doesn't make you French if you're born and raised elsewhere.
It makes you French if your parents raised you with French language and culture, even if your citizenship is Brit. You'd be part of a French ethnic minority in your parents' adopted country. You could even opt for dual citizenship at some point, if both countries allow that. Lots of people belong to one ethnic group while holding the citizenship of their new home.

When Russians settled Manchuria under the last czar, did they become Chinese? Were their kids who were born and raised there Chinese? No one considered them Chinese, least of all the Chinese themselves and their government. They were stateless people after the revolution occurred in Russia. The few who remain there now are classified as a Russian minority nationality by the Chinese government. They're Chinese citizens, but they're not ethnic Chinese. They're Russians/Europeans.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 09-06-2022 at 11:20 AM..
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Old 09-06-2022, 12:43 PM
 
Location: SE UK
14,808 posts, read 11,879,198 times
Reputation: 9786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
You're overlooking the factor pointed out near the beginning of this digression: cultural and linguistic heritage. Speaking Russian makes me Russian if my heritage and genetic makeup are Russian. Same as with Russians in Estonia (many of which eventually opted out of Estonia, and into Russia. Same as in Ukraine; some Russians moved out rather than send their kids to Uke-speaking schools.)
No it doesn't, being born in, growing up in & living in Russia makes you Russian. Ask yourself - why is it people that call themselves Italian American aren't mad on Lazio or AC Milan like actual Italians?
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Old 09-06-2022, 12:45 PM
 
Location: SE UK
14,808 posts, read 11,879,198 times
Reputation: 9786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
It makes you French if your parents raised you with French language and culture, even if your citizenship is Brit. You'd be part of a French ethnic minority in your parents' adopted country. You could even opt for dual citizenship at some point, if both countries allow that. Lots of people belong to one ethnic group while holding the citizenship of their new home.

When Russians settled Manchuria under the last czar, did they become Chinese? Were their kids who were born and raised there Chinese? No one considered them Chinese, least of all the Chinese themselves and their government. They were stateless people after the revolution occurred in Russia. The few who remain there now are classified as a Russian minority nationality by the Chinese government. They're Chinese citizens, but they're not ethnic Chinese. They're Russians/Europeans.
Rubbish! There is no such thing as French 'ethnicity' being French is a nationality not an ethnicity.
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