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Aggregate wages are higher in the Boston MSA than Philly, $51.9B in Q3'19 vs. $43.1B.
Boston gets far more VC and has more int'l travel when there is travel.
Historically, being a seaport meant Boston pulled in more outsiders, and had higher imports and immigration.
Aggregate wages in Boston are also weighed against an aggregate 20% higher cost-of-living compared to the Philadelphia area, but that really doesn't address the point of the thread.
VC is one aspect that Boston does punch way above its weight and is similar to NYC levels, but international visitation is certainly much, much higher in the NY Metro.
Relative to immigration, both the Philadelphia and Boston areas definitely received similarly large numbers historically; Philadelphia was historically more of a domestic magnet, being at more of a population "crossroads" than Boston; hence, it received more American-born in-migrants, particularly African-Americans migrating north.
Boston definitely has big Influence outside of New England but most people only know Boston for Harvard, American Revolution, and the sports teams (mainly Patriots and Red Sox). Most Americans aren't aware of Boston local culture, but NYC pretty much everyone under 30 uses NYC slang to a degree (the word lit came from New York), it's always on tv, and everyone knows about the New Yawk accent.
Not sure if it's been mentioned or not, but it would be reasonable to think that Philly might have been more attentive to the other big city in its state and thus had more of a natural rivalry with Pittsburgh than NYC.
As a Pittsburgher I can safely say that nobody here ever mentions Philadelphia and vice-versa. While I love visiting Philadelphia it's so far away that it's not nearly as easy to visit as it is to visit many other cities.
For example, Pittsburgh is much closer to Cleveland, Baltimore, DC, Buffalo, Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, and is actually even about equidistant from either Toronto or Philadelphia.
Pennsylvania is a relatively WIDE state, and there's a relatively WIDE mountain range in between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh that divides us not only geographically but also culturally. Pittsburgh has a distinctively different feel from Philadelphia.
As a Pittsburgher I can safely say that nobody here ever mentions Philadelphia and vice-versa. While I love visiting Philadelphia it's so far away that it's not nearly as easy to visit as it is to visit many other cities.
For example, Pittsburgh is much closer to Cleveland, Baltimore, DC, Buffalo, Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, and is actually even about equidistant from either Toronto or Philadelphia.
Pennsylvania is a relatively WIDE state, and there's a relatively WIDE mountain range in between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh that divides us not only geographically but also culturally. Pittsburgh has a distinctively different feel from Philadelphia.
I gotcha. I know that Philly is closer to the Bos-Wash cities and Pittsburgh is closer to Midwestern cities and that they aren't particularly close to each other, but I figured that being the only two major cities in the same state would've lent itself to a rivalry on some level.
Boston was 20% foreign born in 1990. It’s 29% foreign born today
Philadelphia was 7% foreign born in 1990. It’s 14% foreign born today.
Philadelphia is not on Boston’s level of immigration -at all-and thats why their populations have gone such different ways since 1980.
Just a nit that Boston's actually at 27.9% and Philadelphia's at 14.7%, but the point still stands. In modern years, Boston has always maintained its role as an immigrant gateway. Philadelphia shared that role following the American Revolution (in 1850, 30% of Philadelphians were immigrants--double the national average).
It dropped to such a low in the 1990s following decades of economic decline, but its immigrant share is definitely on the rise again as it continues to re-emerge as a major knowledge economy hub, much like Boston already has, but only 20-30 years later.
Yes, in modern years, Boston has always maintained its role as an immigrant gateway. Philadelphia shared that role following the American Revolution (in 1850, 30% of Philadelphians were immigrants--double the national average).
It dropped to such a low in the 1990s following decades of economic decline, but its immigrant share is definitely on the rise again as it continues to re-emerge as a major knowledge economy hub, much like Boston already has, but only 20-30 years later.
But I wonder why it dropped so precipitously. Boston was ~14% immigrants at its very lowest in 1970..Philly is just getting there now. Boston’s economic decline earlier than Philadelphia get it never got as native-born as Philly.
My theory is Boston has always been more outward facing. Even in 1850 Boston was 34% foreign born, higher than Philly and remained 34-36% foreign born thru 1910.
I think Philadelphia has always been-as you said- more of a crossroads for the American public and more ‘American’ than Boston whose ethos mirrors its geographic position, jutting out into the Northern Atlantic.
I would assume back in 1850-1910 Boston was more connected to Europe than was Philadelphia due to proximity. Even in 1990 Boston’s top three immigrant nations were all in Europe. None are in the top 10 anymore, but it does speak to the historical tie between Boston and Europe. It may also be because Massachusetts has tons of gateway cities. The state of MA (17%) is much more foreign born than the city of Philadelphia (14%).
And just skipped over Dallas, Austin, Nashville, Miami, Atlanta, and DC...to focus on Phily? Nah it's GOTTA be personal. Why would someone from one overshadowed/under-the-radar top 10 city make the other overshadowed/under-the-radar top 10 city the object of his ire?
Other than DC and Dallas, I think Philly is well beyond most of those cities. Philly sits right next to Houston in a lot of things, I know Houston is a top 3 city, etc, but Philly is close.
Kong is waiting for the day Houston passes Chicago in population. Any day now.
But I wonder why it dropped so precipitously. Boston was ~14% immigrants at its very lowest in 1970..Philly is just getting there now. Boston’s economic decline earlier than Philadelphia get it never got as native-born as Philly.
My theory is Boston has always been more outward facing. Even in 1850 Boston was 34% foreign born, higher than Philly and remained 34-36% foreign born thru 1910.
I think Philadelphia has always been-as you said- more of a crossroads for the American public and more ‘American’ than Boston whose ethos mirrors its geographic position, jutting out into the Northern Atlantic.
I would assume back in 1850-1910 Boston was more connected to Europe than was Philadelphia due to proximity. Even in 1990 Boston’s top three immigrant nations were all in Europe. None are in the top 10 anymore, but it does speak to the historical tie between Boston and Europe. It may also be because Massachusetts has tons of gateway cities. The state of MA (17%) is much more foreign born than the city of Philadelphia (14%).
Eh, my feeling is the difference between 30% and 34% is fairly negligible in the scheme of things (I also wouldn't characterize 17% as "much more" than 14%). There's also margins of error involved, too.
I will agree with you that Massachusetts is of course closer to Europe and has of course had more of a coastal/port-facing bent due to its geography. That much is obvious. But I certainly wouldn't characterize Pennsylvania as any less "outward-facing" historically. It also has a very rich immigrant history throughout the state, from Philadelphia, to the Anabaptists in Amish country, to immigrant-heavy coal, steel, and railroad industries in Pittsburgh, the Lehigh Valley, and around Scranton.
Let's not forget that we're talking about the Quaker State. William Penn's vision for religious tolerance attracted many immigrants of all kinds and is reflected in Pennsylvania to this day (even for a state that's still whiter than average, you'd be hard pressed to find a more ethnically diverse white population).
Eh, my feeling is the difference between 30% and 34% is fairly negligible in the scheme of things (I also wouldn't characterize 17% as "much more" than 14%). There's also margins of error involved, too.
I will agree with you that Massachusetts is of course closer to Europe and has of course had more of a coastal/port-facing bent due to its geography. That much is obvious. But I certainly wouldn't characterize Pennsylvania as any less "outward-facing" historically. It also has a very rich immigrant history throughout the state, from Philadelphia, to the Anabaptists in Amish country, to immigrant-heavy coal, steel, and railroad industries.
Let's not forget that we're talking about the Quaker State. William Penn's vision for religious tolerance attracted many immigrants of all kinds and is reflected in Pennsylvania to this day (even for a state that's still whiter than average, you'd be hard pressed to find a more ethnically diverse white population).
I absolutely think 17% versus 14% is a large difference- it’s a 21% difference-especially when you’re talking about a state and all of he rural hinterlands and homogeneous areas that come with that. And the margin of error for a state estimate is probably not that great.
30% versus 34% is much less significant but it still is an indicator that Boston was probably always a bit more immigrant based -at the very least it was never less.
As for PAs white population, I don’t know if it more or less diverse than Massachusetts’. Most whites people in MA are Irish or Italian and then there’s a large English defended chunk and a large Portuguese chunk. There’s a small French Canadian descended population and then in the Boston area you add sizable Jewish, Armenian, Brazilian, Polish and Greek communities. I know Pennsylvania has a large German descended population, Amish population and large Italian, Irish and Jewish populations near Philadelphia.
In many ways I have viewed Pennsylvania as a whiter, larger, more Americanized Massachusetts for the past decade or so.
Large city that houses 10% of the state wayy to the East. With scattered post industrial cities all over the state and an anchor city out west like Pittsburgh/Springfield and to some degree in the shadow of NYS/NYC.
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