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Well folks, Carroll is abandoning a skyscraper for a more horizontal layout. The deck will sit between the Aloft Hotel and the office building he has planned. Apparently this was done to speed up the process of building the deck. So it will all be horizontal instead of being stacked on top of one another. While it won't be a "skyscraper", there is still some hope for a small highrise around 10 stories or at the least a midrise development around 8 stories. The design will also be much simpler. Another reason for this could be cost overruns with Carroll at Bellemeade. I'm sure the major delays is costing him a pretty penny and as a result wants something more modest with the Aloft project. Skyscrapers are far more expensive to build than low-rise or midrise developments.
Well folks, Carroll is abandoning a skyscraper for a more horizontal layout. The deck will sit between the Aloft Hotel and the office building he has planned. Apparently this was done to speed up the process of building the deck. So it will all be horizontal instead of being stacked on top of one another. While it won't be a "skyscraper", there is still some hope for a small highrise around 10 stories or at the least a midrise development around 8 stories. The design will also be much simpler. Another reason for this could be cost overruns with Carroll at Bellemeade. I'm sure the major delays is costing him a pretty penny and as a result wants something more modest with the Aloft project. Skyscrapers are far more expensive to build than low-rise or midrise developments.
This is a MUCH better idea. It's overall more cost effective and it allows Greensboro to build the necessary parking garage without waiting on the hotel and (unrealistic at this time) office building. Building on top of an already established structure is much more costly and difficult than building all at once. And waiting on the bigger office building to be ready would be a fool's errand.
So build the garage. Built the hotel. And when the market's ready (5-10 years at least IMO), build the new office building. By then, Greensboro might need another parking garage anyway and you can build a 10-15 story building on top of a new 4-6 story parking deck. But again, that's all years out.
One thing I do want to point out. The project itself isn't being downsized, only the height which in this case is irrelevant as to what Greensboro can support in this case. The way Carroll originally designed it, the project would have taken too long to get a deck built for Project Slugger across the street. Like I said before cost overruns at Carroll at Bellemeade may have been a factor. But the only difference is that it won't be stacked for a 20 plus story tower. But clearly Greensboro could support a 20 plus story tower. Downtown has four of them. You have to look at what occupies the tower to determine what Greensboro can support not the height.
One thing I do want to point out. The project itself isn't being downsized, only the height which in this case is irrelevant as to what Greensboro can support in this case. The way Carroll originally designed it, the project would have taken too long to get a deck built for Project Slugger across the street. Like I said before cost overruns at Carroll at Bellemeade may have been a factor. But the only difference is that it won't be stacked for a 20 plus story tower. But clearly Greensboro could support a 20 plus story tower. Downtown has four of them. You have to look at what occupies the tower to determine what Greensboro can support not the height.
You have to look at the demand for office space downtown. A 9 story tower that was set to be built got downgraded to a 6 (largely due to the uncertainty with this deck). But if demand were so high in downtown to warrant a 10+ story office tower, the other three stories that were just lost from that 9 story tower would have been scooped up quickly. They weren't.
This is a better project. The deck should hopefully be up late next year or early the following. The hotel will be a year or two behind that. The office tower is an unknown. But has been pointed out time and again in this thread, it's not as if Carroll was getting loads of interest before when each element was stacked on top of each other. Project Slugger will go up. Hopefully more demand will come soon after that. But to build another big tower, you need another big tenant. Maybe in a few years, Arch will fill that demand. Maybe another local company will decide they need a lot more office space. Maybe someone new will come from out of the area. Maybe it will be a while before any of those possibilities happen. But IMO, the tower is being separated because the office demand just is not there right now. Interest and talking don't equal demand. Actual signed contracts and letters of intent do and those have not come about for Carroll's project.
That said, the reduced cost from splitting this project up may allow for lower rents which may work to generate some demand for the office space.
Speaking of Arch Capital, what's the deal with that? They were suppose to relocate their corporate headquarters in Greensboro but they are still in Bermuda. Is this the company the city lost out on because of HB2? Mayor Vaughan said in Texas when she spoke against a similar bill there that Greensboro had lost out on a major headquarters over that bill. The bill has since been repealed.
One thing I do want to point out. The project itself isn't being downsized, only the height which in this case is irrelevant as to what Greensboro can support in this case.
How do you know that? The article you linked to doesn't say anything about the amount of office space to be built, nor for that matter, the timing of the construction of the office space. In fact, it sounds pretty obvious that there is no timetable to construct the office space, which means Carroll still has none of it leased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78
But clearly Greensboro could support a 20 plus story tower. Downtown has four of them. You have to look at what occupies the tower to determine what Greensboro can support not the height.
Again, that is not at all clear. And since at this point nothing occupies the "tower" then your comment is absurd.
This is clearly a huge retrenchment for Carroll and a de facto admission that an office skyscraper is simply not feasible in G'boro right now, nor in the foreseeable future.
How do you know that? The article you linked to doesn't say anything about the amount of office space to be built, nor for that matter, the timing of the construction of the office space. In fact, it sounds pretty obvious that there is no timetable to construct the office space, which means Carroll still has none of it leased.
Again, that is not at all clear. And since at this point nothing occupies the "tower" then your comment is absurd.
This is clearly a huge retrenchment for Carroll and a de facto admission that an office skyscraper is simply not feasible in G'boro right now, nor in the foreseeable future.
It wasn't an "office skyscraper" it was a mixed-use use tower with an office component which by the way he hasn't abandoned. It just won't be stacked on top of the deck. Clearly Carroll had different timelines between the deck, hotel and office component. If he had stacked them, he'd have to build it all at one time.
It wasn't an "office skyscraper" it was a mixed-use use tower with an office component which by the way he hasn't abandoned. It just won't be stacked on top of the deck. Clearly Carroll had different timelines between the deck, hotel and office component. If he had stacked them, he'd have to build it all at one time.
Yeah im sorry gsoboi, you gotta just let this one go. I actually applaud Carroll for seemingly swallowing his pride over what was basically nothing more then a pride based project. I believe he said himself this tower (at the time being 561) was supposed to be a status symbol for Greensboro. Giving it the tallest tower in the state outside if Charlotte. That was his goal. To this very day it hasn't been feasible. Carroll almost lost the whole thing just weeks ago. Its a smart move to change plans for something more appropriate for Greensboro's needs. Both time and demand.
Arch Capital is indeed in downtown Greensboro. Arch Mi brought United Guarantee and is using the same building at 230 North Elm St that UG was in..It didn't bring any new jobs to the aera though in fact it did the opposite and layoffs happened..
Last edited by Chadfromnc; 06-21-2018 at 08:00 AM..
Reason: Spelling
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