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They may not have mentioned this in the Hawaiian Public School system - or perhaps you never noticed, but "Whites" make up only 24.7% of the population in Hawaii - a minority.
Hawaii, feel free to take a vote on the matter. Oh wait, that wouldn't look so good when only a couple percent of the population would want to look like laughingstocks.
For the $4,000,000 already spent - and for the $3,000,000 more authorized (or already spent), I wonder how that money could have spent on "Native Hawaiians" rather than the failed Hawaiian Roll Commission by OHA? Certainly that could have helped some of them with scholarships or even helped with basic reading and writing skills.
Last edited by whtviper1; 05-31-2014 at 03:34 PM..
Sausage-making is often an un-sightly and sometimes distasteful process. Making Headcheese lunch meat from a pigs head is even worse.
But in the end, the end product is well worth it.
The same thing can accurately be said about Hawaiian statehood. Yes, there were trials, tribulations, murders, ravages and savages along the way, starting with, apparently, the Tahitian invasion, through Kam and the displacement of the Monarchy that came to power using the same use-of-force tactics that are complained about when it was their turn to fall.
However, can anyone say that Hawaii is NOT better off, much better off. Can anyone say that mankind is not better off. Hawaiians got access to technology, metals, electronics, medicines etc., and the world got a playground to refresh and renew their spirits, and the US military bases there help the US preserve and defend the Peace, and to quash evil when it raised its ugly head back in the '30s.
By that same line of reasoning, Hawaiʻi would have been better off if the British had kept it in 1843. After all, the Hawaiian monarchy was modeled after the British monarchy and if it wasn't for the military advice of John Young and Isaac Davis, Kamehameha would have never been able to unite most of Hawaiʻi. To this day, the canton of the official Hawaiian flag bears the "Union Flag" of the United Kingdom, like most British Overseas Territories, Hong Kong (prior to its 1997 return to China), and Singapore (when it was a "Crown colony"), not the "Stars and Stripes" of the United States. Of course, due to the efforts of Liholiho, Christian missionaries, and Christian converts, Hawaiʻi had a literacy rate between 91% and 95% by 1834. Sadly, after being a U.S. state for approximately half a century, the literacy rate in Hawaiʻi decreased to around 84%. And, letʻs not forget the U.S. military, which caused nearly irreparable environmental damage to Mākua Valley, Kahoʻolawe, and other places throughout Hawaiʻi so that they could train to "preserve and defend the Peace."
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22-250
Japan, a feudal state before, started a war, and in the end, had its ass-kicked. However, it emerged from that experience, and embracing the sort of reconstruction the US does after defeating an enemy, a fully-modern thriving, world-leading nation. They did not resist, they did not complain, they moved forward to their own and the world's betterment.
I guess that you aren't that aware of the Meiji Restoration, the Japanese colonization of Korea and Manchuria, and total extent of the "Great Japanese Empire." Japan was a "fully-modern, thriving, world-leading nation" decades before its defeat in the "Greater East Asia War" that Americans usually refer to as "World War II."
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22-250
There is a lesson in there somewhere that some refuse to take to heart.
The biggest lesson here is that some folks aren't particularly well-versed in Hawaiian, Asian, and American history.
For the $4,000,000 already spent - and for the $3,000,000 more authorized (or already spent), I wonder how that money could have spent on "Native Hawaiians" rather than the failed Hawaiian Roll Commission by OHA? Certainly that could have helped some of them with scholarships or even helped with basic reading and writing skills.
Not to mention the $7,500,000+ that was pretty much wasted on the previous "Kau Inoa" registration effort.
By that same line of reasoning, Hawaiʻi would have been better off if the British had kept it in 1843. After all, the Hawaiian monarchy was modeled after the British monarchy and if it wasn't for the military advice of John Young and Isaac Davis, Kamehameha would have never been able to unite most of Hawaiʻi. To this day, the canton of the official Hawaiian flag bears the "Union Flag" of the United Kingdom, like most British Overseas Territories, Hong Kong (prior to its 1997 return to China), and Singapore (when it was a "Crown colony"), not the "Stars and Stripes" of the United States. Of course, due to the efforts of Liholiho, Christian missionaries, and Christian converts, Hawaiʻi had a literacy rate between 91% and 95% by 1834. Sadly, after being a U.S. state for approximately half a century, the literacy rate in Hawaiʻi decreased to around 84%. And, letʻs not forget the U.S. military, which caused nearly irreparable environmental damage to Mākua Valley, Kahoʻolawe, and other places throughout Hawaiʻi so that they could train to "preserve and defend the Peace."
I guess that you aren't that aware of the Meiji Restoration, the Japanese colonization of Korea and Manchuria, and total extent of the "Great Japanese Empire." Japan was a "fully-modern, thriving, world-leading nation" decades before its defeat in the "Greater East Asia War" that Americans usually refer to as "World War II."
The biggest lesson here is that some folks aren't particularly well-versed in Hawaiian, Asian, and American history.
You miss my point completely, most likely due to the "can't see the forest for all these damn trees, syndrome". Some memorize the details of history, I learn the lessons from them.
Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22-250
You miss miss my point completely, most likely due to the "can't see the forest for all these damn trees, syndrome". Some memorize the details of history, I learn the lessons from them.
Guess you kind of missed out on the 'banned from this website' lesson.
By that same line of reasoning, Hawaiʻi would have been better off if the British had kept it in 1843. After all, the Hawaiian monarchy was modeled after the British monarchy and if it wasn't for the military advice of John Young and Isaac Davis, Kamehameha would have never been able to unite most of Hawaiʻi. To this day, the canton of the official Hawaiian flag bears the "Union Flag" of the United Kingdom, like most British Overseas Territories, Hong Kong (prior to its 1997 return to China), and Singapore (when it was a "Crown colony"), not the "Stars and Stripes" of the United States. Of course, due to the efforts of Liholiho, Christian missionaries, and Christian converts, Hawaiʻi had a literacy rate between 91% and 95% by 1834. Sadly, after being a U.S. state for approximately half a century, the literacy rate in Hawaiʻi decreased to around 84%. And, letʻs not forget the U.S. military, which caused nearly irreparable environmental damage to Mākua Valley, Kahoʻolawe, and other places throughout Hawaiʻi so that they could train to "preserve and defend the Peace."
I guess that you aren't that aware of the Meiji Restoration, the Japanese colonization of Korea and Manchuria, and total extent of the "Great Japanese Empire." Japan was a "fully-modern, thriving, world-leading nation" decades before its defeat in the "Greater East Asia War" that Americans usually refer to as "World War II."
The biggest lesson here is that some folks aren't particularly well-versed in Hawaiian, Asian, and American history.
great post... some people say that by the US Illegally overthrowing Hawaii it was all for good...
On Dec. 18, 1893, President Cleveland made an eloquent speech to Congress on the Hawaiian situation. He had harsh words for the landing of American troops at the revolutionaries' request:
"This military demonstration upon the soil of Honolulu was of itself an act of war; unless made either with the consent of the government of Hawaii or for the bona fide purpose of protecting the imperiled lives and property of citizens of the United States. But there is no pretense of any such consent on the part of the government of the queen ... the existing government, instead of requesting the presence of an armed force, protested against it. There is as little basis for the pretense that forces were landed for the security of American life and property. If so, they would have been stationed in the vicinity of such property and so as to protect it, instead of at a distance and so as to command the Hawaiian Government Building and palace. ... When these armed men were landed, the city of Honolulu was in its customary orderly and peaceful condition. ... "
The president continues:
"But for the notorious predilections of the United States minister for annexation, the Committee of Safety, which should have been called the Committee of Annexation, would never have existed.
"But for the landing of the United States forces upon false pretexts respecting the danger to life and property, the committee would never have exposed themselves to the plans and penalties of treason by undertaking the subversion of the queen's government.
"But for the presence of the United States forces in the immediate vicinity and in position to accord all needed protection and support, the committee would not have proclaimed the provisional government from the steps of the Government Building.
"And, finally, but for the lawless occupation of Honolulu under false pretexts by the United States forces, and but for Minister Stevens' recognition of the provisional government when the United States forces were its sole support and constituted its only military strength, the queen and her government would never have yielded to the provisional government, even for a time and for the sole purpose of submitting her case to the enlightened justice of the United States. ... "
He further stated,
"... if a feeble but friendly state is in danger of being robbed of its independence and its sovereignty by a misuse of the name and power of the United States, the United States cannot fail to vindicate its honor and its sense of justice by an earnest effort to make all possible reparation."
President Cleveland concluded by placing the matter in the hands of Congress
great post... some people say that by the US Illegally overthrowing Hawaii it was all for good...
Some people?
Find a 1 in a hundred who doesn't say it was a good thing.
Of course it was a good thing, if for no other reason than if WE didn't control it, somebody ELSE would control it, and they would use it as a base of operations to do bad things to good people. Try to look big picture, instead of only at those who might have come out on the short end of the perception-stick. Some assert, and properly so, that the Monarch was illegal because it came about by use of force. So I do think people are being a bit selective playing the "use-of-force" card.
I challenge you to build a case that on NET, the U.S. displacing the Monarchy, and then allowing Hawaii to become a state, was a bad thing. Overall, NET bad thing.
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